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Old 04-10-2010, 01:39 PM   #15
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I just went back and checked my oil reports. I tested Pennzoil 10w30 "Synthetic" (grp III), Royal Purple "Synthetic" (grp III) and now Mobil 1 (grp IV). The reports are all about the same some my next change will be plain old Dino oil. Why? Now that I am not full-timing I doubt very seriously if I will put 3,000 miles a year on. I can do 2 changes for the price of 1 Mobil 1 change and end up with a better additive package than an extended run on synthetic. Best, my "butt" couldn't tell the difference nor did the MPG calculations change.

OBTW - The last 3 changes were with a 2 qt Champ oil filter.
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Old 04-10-2010, 02:55 PM   #16
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It causes me to think that if Allison can change to transynd and extend their oil change intervals why the engine manufacturers can't do the same. Granted combustion doesn't take place in a transmission and it's those contaminates contributes greatly to the acids and contaminates found in dino oil, but with better refinements of fuels, the availability of better oil filters and the superior qualities of oil, it makes me question why the engine manufacturers still adhere to 1930 oil change intervals.


Cummins recommends a 15,000 mile oil change interval using dino oil. I typically put on between 5 and 6,000 miles per year so it seems that the issue isn't what goes on in the oil when the engine is running but what is going on with it when it is not running, what effects it has on the engine and what can be done to monitor and mitigate it. If acids and other harmful chemicals are forming in the oil while it sits oil analysis can be use to monitor this condition and perhaps additives can be used to control it. But until we know for sure what chemical change is going on in synthetic oil when it sits a hard and fast mileage only interval cannot be established. But with all things considered a change is in order.
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Old 04-10-2010, 05:22 PM   #17
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I just got my Oil Analysis back for Black Stone labs.

Note - only 2,500 miles on 10w30 Royal Purple

The Copper value was really high.... It's been high the last 3 changes. Not sure what is causing it. Other than that everything else is with in normal ranges.

The TBN was 4 or about 50%...

The TAN was 6.8 which means it was quite acidic. I suspect that from non-use.
Oemy

What were your copper readings? I have had my oil tested at Blackstone Labs the last 4 oil changes, the copper levels are much higher than the universal average.

The first oil test had 4974 miles on the oil, the copper level was 70
The second test had 3337 miles , copper level was 59
The third test had 6683 miles, copper level was 101
The last test had 5438 miles, copper level was107

All the oil was Mobil 1 5W30 Truck and SUV, Filters were Mobil 1 301

Are the above copper levels similar to yours?

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Old 04-10-2010, 06:49 PM   #18
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I've been a mechanic for over 50 years and been a gearhead all those years.

Been down the synthetic trail a number of times myself as well as with hundreds of customers and never had any concrete proof of better performance vs cost.

I tell all my customers that oil is the lifeblood of your engine and it is the cheapest thing you can buy for it.

I think testing is a waste of time and money............. change your oil more often and worry about your psa number instead.

You don't use your bath water till it's dirty do you?

I recommend and change my vehicles at 3000 miles including the diesels especially because oil is cheaper than a new motor

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Old 04-10-2010, 08:48 PM   #19
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I recommend and change my vehicles at 3000 miles including the diesels especially because oil is cheaper than a new motor (quote)




Dale, (arrowhead) in my opinion, this may have been good advice for automobile owners 30 or 40 years ago. With todays lubricants, and todays engines, following that advice is just a big waste of time and money, not to mention throwing away some really good engine oil. I know of no auto manufacturer who recommends this frequent of an oil change in thier engines. Workhorse does, in thier 8.1 motorhomes.
I would agree on the psa however, have the doc check it once a year on my annual physical.


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Old 04-10-2010, 10:23 PM   #20
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1st test 25K - Copper 45
2nd test 29k - Copper 112
3rd test 31k - Cooper 165 ... Yikes! I suspect the oil cooler.
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Old 04-10-2010, 10:33 PM   #21
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Depending on the engine and the mileage your change interval may be different. This is where testing comes in.

Oil tests on my Honda CRV (toad) with 165K on the clock is on a 3k change interval. Why? I went 5k as test on std dino oil and the TBN was on 2.7. The previous test of 5k the TBN was 2.4. So, there was not much left of the additive package. I had the TAN test on the last sample and it was 4.6. So, it was fairly acidic.
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Old 04-10-2010, 10:51 PM   #22
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1st test 25K - Copper 45
2nd test 29k - Copper 112
3rd test 31k - Cooper 165 ... Yikes! I suspect the oil cooler.

My last three tests: re copper
first =46,000miles with 4900 on oil including 2 qts make up=70
second=48650miles with 2400 on oil including 1 qt make up=53
third=55970miles with 4600 on oil including 3 qts make up=42
Blackstone suggests to try 5000-5500 miles oil use on next change.

Not sure if I will

Marty
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Old 04-10-2010, 11:04 PM   #23
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I believe that Royal Purple is Group III... according to the rep I spoke to.

And that is the problem I have personally. Nobody knows what you get when it comes to synthetic. Some say Amsoil is a grp IV other say it is a grp III.
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Old 04-11-2010, 02:31 AM   #24
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I believe that Royal Purple is Group III... according to the rep I spoke to.
look at the msds. it will show what the base is. companies don't usually lie on the msds.
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Old 04-11-2010, 09:29 AM   #25
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look at the msds. it will show what the base is. companies don't usually lie on the msds.
Dan, Does the MSDS tell us what group a particular oil belongs to?
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Old 04-11-2010, 10:54 AM   #26
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Dan, Does the MSDS tell us what group a particular oil belongs to?
No it does not. It will tell you either if it is a refined mineral oul or a sythetic oil. I looked at the MSDS for Pensoil Platinum. The US MSDS sheet said it is a Synthetic Oil, the German MSDS stated it is a Highly refined Mineral oil.

Remember I wrote that in Europe only Group IV are allowed to be labled as synthetic. So the north american false advertising continues on the MSDS. That this is legal has to do with Castrol Synthec. Castrol was the first to market a group III oil as synthetic. Exxon (makers of Mobile1) took Castrol to court over this and Castrol won in the US but not in Europe.
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Old 04-11-2010, 02:13 PM   #27
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No it does not. It will tell you either if it is a refined mineral oul or a sythetic oil. I looked at the MSDS for Pensoil Platinum. The US MSDS sheet said it is a Synthetic Oil, the German MSDS stated it is a Highly refined Mineral oil.

Remember I wrote that in Europe only Group IV are allowed to be labled as synthetic. So the north american false advertising continues on the MSDS. That this is legal has to do with Castrol Synthec. Castrol was the first to market a group III oil as synthetic. Exxon (makers of Mobile1) took Castrol to court over this and Castrol won in the US but not in Europe.
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:12 PM   #28
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I change my oil once a year and use Mobil 1 5w/30 and a 1 qt. Wix filter. Usually I only put around 5000 miles on it a year.
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