changing oil

LKANER · 04-09-2010, 01:14 PM

does synthetic oil need to be changed as often as regular oil ?

JoeT · 04-09-2010, 01:29 PM

In a word, yes. CAT, for one, does not extend the oil change interval when using synthetic oil. I don't think Cummins does either.

GaryKD · 04-09-2010, 01:32 PM

Hi LKANER,
If the engine is under the manufacturer's warranty, follow the engine manufacturer's requirements to maintain the warranty. If the engine is not under warranty, you can read all the conflicting information about synthetic oil and do what allows you to sleep at night. One of the reasons I do not use synthetic oil is I do not believe in extending the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval (mileage or time). This means the business case, for me, has never been met.

oemtech · 04-09-2010, 01:33 PM

The only way to tell is to have your oil tested and get the TBN (Total Base Number). The TBN is what is left of the additive package. I sent my oil in for testing and I will report the findings when I get them back.

OBTW - TBN and TAN (Total Acid Number) are optional and usually cost extra.

OBTW2 - My oil test cost about $45.

a k · 04-09-2010, 01:45 PM

It only cost me $120 for new oil.

oemtech · 04-09-2010, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a k

It only cost me $120 for new oil.

Yes.... but you still don't what shape the oil was in nor do you know if you can go to extended change intervals.

DriVer · 04-09-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LKANER

does synthetic oil need to be changed as often as regular oil ?

It is not at all difficult to go out and find instances where fleets will retain their oils for 100,000 miles due to a rigorous testing schedule. Time is money for those folks so if they keep their trucks on the road, they make money. Do they use extended oil change intervals you bet.

In regard to a 6.5 quart crankcase capacity, the economics are just not there and it's less expensive to just change the oil at a sane and reasonable interval.

The OE change interval at 3,000miles or 3 months is too rigid in my opinion because we have seen where folks won't move their rigs for 3 months at a time.

a k · 04-09-2010, 02:19 PM

I use to work on big centrifugal HVAC and we took oil samples when we changed the oil to see if anything was coming apart. Still changed the oil. Cheap insurance. Hate to find out oil ain't no good after waiting two weeks for the results.

Use to slip in my Cessna 310 engine oil samples, You should of heard them when the found av gas in it.

gonzo · 04-09-2010, 05:21 PM

I do my own oil changes. Cost me $10 for the folter plus the cost of the oil. With the miles we drive I only change the oil once a year. so an oil change will cost me under $50. Why should I spend $45 in testing if I can change the oil for that price?

Will Synthetic be better? I don't know. I am very sceptical about the entire synthetic thing. Oils that claim they are full synthetic are in fact only a group 3 oil. However group 3 oil are not Synthetic. In europe it is illegal for the manufacturers to call a group 3 oil an synthetic oil. Mobile has spend a lot of money in marketing but I fail to see had fact that the average user will benefit form the higher cost.

Here is a copy of a post the I have put up on RV.net. What I have written there is based on some research I have done on the topic of synthetic oils:

I have posted this a few times before. This is based on FACTS not my personal believes. You can find the information below online for yourself:

I have to say that many of you really need to do some research on Synthetic Oil and what true synthetic oil actually is. There is no regulation in place that will differentiate a dino oil from a synthetic oil. In North America manufacturers can call it whatever they want.

Check out API group I, II, III, IV, V

You regular dino oil is a group II.

Group III were developed by Chevron, Shell, and other petrochemical companies. They developed processes involving catalytic conversion of feed stocks under pressure in the presence of hydrogen into high quality mineral lubricating oil. Group III base stocks are considered synthetic motor oil ONLY in the United States. Group III based lubricants are not allowed to be marketed as "synthetic" in any market outside of the USA. 97% of synthetic oils marketed in the US are Group III oils.

Group IV oils use Polyalphaolefin (PAO) as base stock and group V oils are made off synthetic esters, etc as base oils (non-PAO synthetics, including diesters, polyesters, alklylated napthlenes, alkyklated benzenes, etc.)

Group IV and group V oils are true synthetic oils. AMSOIL, Royal Purple and RED LINE are the only 100% Synthetic on the market (there maybe an other one that I don't remember). In the past Mobile 1 was a group IV. Unfortunately not all Mobile 1 are group IV anymore. Mobile 1 went to the dark side and is now using a Group III for some grades.

And there is a Funny oil on the market too. Castrol Syntec 0W30. If the the bottle says MADE IN GERMANY, it is a true group IV oil. If the bottle is made in the US it is a Group III oil. If you look for them at the store, they are mixed up. You will find the German and the US oil in the same box.

I am sorry to say that many that claim they run a synthetic oil and how much better it is, well sorry many of you are not running a synthetic oil at all and the reason that you get all the benefit you claim may just be a placebo effect.

If your thermostat is working correctly how can anybody claim the engine runs cooler? Mobile 1 does claim a 2% increase in MPG! 2% are they kidding. On A MoHo that runs 7MPG I get an improvement of 246 yards? Well that is definitely a bonus if the Oil cost double from my Dino Stuff.

I am not completely against Mobile 1. In fact my Moho currently sits with synthetic. I but it in during winter. We go down well below 0. I was able to start the MoHo on December at -37degree. I use Mobile 1 in my wifes car because she has no way of plugging in the engine block heater at work. Mobile 1 will not thicken and that is the reason I use it during the winter month.

KSDP · 04-09-2010, 05:34 PM

What filter # do you use? I bought a PF454 but looks small. Thanks Russ Bennett.

gonzo · 04-09-2010, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSDP

What filter # do you use? I bought a PF454 but looks small. Thanks Russ Bennett.

PF454 is the 1/2 quart filter. I would rather use the PF1218 (1quart) or PF932 (2quart).

If you go to the WIX web site you can cross reference. OEMY also got a list with cross refrence parts on his site.

oemtech · 04-09-2010, 07:09 PM

I just got my Oil Analysis back for Black Stone labs.

Note - only 2,500 miles on 10w30 Royal Purple

The Copper value was really high.... It's been high the last 3 changes. Not sure what is causing it. Other than that everything else is with in normal ranges.

The TBN was 4 or about 50%...

The TAN was 6.8 which means it was quite acidic. I suspect that from non-use.

LKANER · 04-10-2010, 08:20 AM

great information. that's the great advantage of having this site for us new comers, we get the experience of users and are not swayed by commericals. looks like I will stay with manufacture specs. Len