Community Forums

DriVer · 06-02-2011, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by "007"

If my memory is correct

there was a competitor offering the same program that was to match Brazels UP upgrade their name must be back in the old threads when Brazels first came on-line, still looking.

I believe the name that you are looking for is Wester's.

Topflite51 · 06-04-2011, 09:43 AM

Maybe coincidental and maybe not, but isn't there a history of number 5 and 7 having plug wire failure because of heat? Could this have contributed to the damage that occurred? The cylinders could have been damaged before the engine was chipped. Since, they do have a satisfaction guaranteed warranty I would ask that the monies paid for the chipping be refunded since you are clearly not satisfied with its performance. As to the engine itself that is another story. Tough one to prove and I would not involve an attorney, it would probably only result in spending more money with a poor result.

DriVer · 06-04-2011, 01:57 PM

Did the OP not share with us that this 2003 engine already had Banks Engineering high performance hardware installed on the engine? In my opinion the OP was committed to improving the performance profile of the engine and vehicle. I don't even think that this would make for an interesting case as I believe it would be dismissed.

We all know that there is a 100% money back guarantee if the purchaser is not pleased with the tuning product. I would pursue that remedy since it would appear to be a viable option.

In any case the installing dealer (Redlands) should be the 1st point of contact in this matter and they should be allowed to inspect the engine for any deficiencies and detail the forensics of the failure. The men that work in this industry are not simply out to make a buck and defraud the public.

If it is proven that their product caused the failure, they have insurance for that and I'm sure they would go a long way to satisfy their customer. Both Redlands and Brazels are top 10 dealers nationally and I can only surmise that they would not want to damage that reputation since they have worked so hard to achieve it.

There are methods that need to be followed other than finger pointing. In our system of law, everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

Ed was kind enough to provide us with BULLETIN NO: 60701-T April, 2007. For those persons covered by the Workhorse Warranty, this is all they need to know. Now that said, there is nothing that is going to prevent an owner from making an informed decision as to whether or not they will chose to follow this corporate directive. I would recommend that they do however people in this country have the ability to make choices.

BoundPainter · 06-04-2011, 02:14 PM

Don't know if you can see the attached photo, but it is of the baank of cylinders that suffered the damage. For the first time I noticed that cylinder 3 is also the wrong color, but not yet damaged. Cylinder 5 had the code set. Both cylinders 5 and 7 had chunks out of the pistons where the recess is for the exhaust valve. Cylinders 1, 2,4,6, and 8 are all the brownish color. Perhaps someone with more technical expertise than I has a clue to the cause. Don't know how the poll is going but Workhorse said they have seen 'lots' of reprogramed engines with this problem and the program installer says they see lots of GM 8.1 engines in their business that have not been reprogrammed and still have this problem. To me, 35K miles with no problem and 6K with the reprogramming burning pistons is a good indicator of who is the cause.
Just got my Proscan tool - will check to see what the reprogrammed to stock data shows when I get some time. Stay tuned!

Mr_D · 06-04-2011, 02:26 PM

The engine manufacturers will always try to weasel out of a warranty by saying they won't warranty it if modifications are made. BUT that's against Federal Law. Specifically the Magnusson-Moss act. The manufacturer MUST PROVE that the modification caused the failure, but it'll usually take a court decision to make it stick. They can't unilaterally say that any modification will void the warranty, it must be proven by the manufacturer.
I picked up a bunch of papers from Cummins that basically says that ANY modification will void the warranty, which, again, is illegal.

Topflite51 · 06-04-2011, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_D

The engine manufacturers will always try to weasel out of a warranty by saying they won't warranty it if modifications are made. BUT that's against Federal Law. Specifically the Magnusson-Moss act. The manufacturer MUST PROVE that the modification caused the failure, but it'll usually take a court decision to make it stick. They can't unilaterally say that any modification will void the warranty, it must be proven by the manufacturer.
I picked up a bunch of papers from Cummins that basically says that ANY modification will void the warranty, which, again, is illegal.

Given the age of the unit, I don't believe there is a engine warranty for the engine manufacturer to weasel out of. I am not personally familiar with this chip and it's programming, but MOST chipping for "on the street" use does not modify air ratio/fuel mixtures. Again, get the money for the programming and call it a valuable, albeit an expensive lesson learned.

MntDriver · 06-09-2011, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriVer

Did the OP not share with us that this 2003 engine already had Banks Engineering high performance hardware installed on the engine?

I can't find where he said that he had a Banks system installed. I believe he had an Ultrapower ECM update installed, and some wires.

It's my understanding that he is wanting a refund on the Ultrapower, but the installer and Brazels have refused.

DriVer · 06-09-2011, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MntDriver

I can't find where he said that he had a Banks system installed. He had an Ultrapower ECM update installed, and some wires.

You may be correct. I now see that a bulleted list of features (post 6) may have led me to believe that the vehicle had Banks equipement installed.

Mekanic · 06-09-2011, 03:11 PM

I'd think if someone who had a 8.1L that needed a rebuild like the one shown in post #32. you could send the crank to someone who makes steel billet cranks for race cars and order up some good quality pistons and you wouldn't have any worrys about parts flaking off.
This really could be done for less than the bills you guys are recieving on your replacment engines.

MegaRoadie · 06-11-2011, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FDchief

I am following this thread to keep up the the myriad of responses to the elusive reasons for failures of the venerable 8.1.

Firstly, I wish you good luck in having ANY manufacturer of a performance chip warranty your blown engine. As was already mentioned, Brazel's has already stated that it is done on a case by case basis. With the bone stock motor that detonated in this thread, any good attorney can argue that it was some other cause that was the premature demise of your power plant. This decision will be held up in the courts for an eternity. You are probably money ahead by not pursuing help with your cost.

I personally would like to know the percentage of 8.1s that have failed. I would be surprised if it was even 1%. There is a thread asking just that question with a poll, so far not a single failure has signed in, nada. Please don't keep me in suspense, vote in that poll!

As for your engine problems, I am very sorry to hear of your misfortune. I know how I would feel if mine went unexpectedly. I hope this new motor treats you more kindly.

You need to go back and READ that thread ! I and several others have posted our failed 8.1's on the thread.

Be safe, enjoy the road, Thank a Vet for our freedoms !

pkmesser · 06-11-2011, 12:50 PM

There has been a lot of discussion, in this thread and others, about upgradeing the power in the 8.1. I do not recall anyone mentioning what they're doing to the transmission when they do that. (if you read the 1000 specs, the stock 8.1 is at the power limit of that transmission

)

mythplaced · 06-11-2011, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FDchief

I personally would like to know the percentage of 8.1s that have failed. I would be surprised if it was even 1%. There is a thread asking just that question with a poll, so far not a single failure has signed in, nada. Please don't keep me in suspense, vote in that poll!

THe blown 8.1 engine rate on Irv2 is now at 6.7%

Hmmm....

Topflite51 · 06-11-2011, 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pkmesser

There has been a lot of discussion, in this thread and others, about upgradeing the power in the 8.1. I do not recall anyone mentioning what they're doing to the transmission when they do that. (if you read the 1000 specs, the stock 8.1 is at the power limit of that transmission

)

Yes it is, isn't it. I guess Allison's are even better then they think.

M&EM · 06-11-2011, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mekanic

80HP & 100 foot lbs???!!!! seriously? did it come with a turbo??

I have seen these kind of results on a dyno. The numbers of before and after a UP re program did show improvements close to those in question. The UP and new SPlug wires were the only changes made!

Timing as I recall was one of the parameters that get optimized.

Marty