Drive shaft alignment

[caseydogsdad]

I have a 2003 Vacationer on a W22 Chassis.
It has always had a little "whine" that sounds like the differential, but having it checked out did not indicate there was a problem.
Recently (after reading on different Class A forums about unlubricated U-joints) I decided that I would check the 4 U-joints and the slip joint.
Imagine my surprise when I got under there and started looking around that the driveshaft looks like a stretched out "Z". From the transmission the first section is about 1 1/2 inches to the right. The second section goes about 1 1/2 inches to the left, and the third section goes back about 1 1/2 inches to the right.
I can't believe that is the way it should be, and this may be causing the noise I hear.
I also believe that this is probably putting unnecessary stress on the pinion bearings and on the 2 steady bearings on the shaft.

Has anyone encountered this problem before??
I have sent a message to Workhorse but they have not replied.

P.S.
I am a retired Class "A" Auto Mechanic.

[caseydogsdad]

I have a 2003 Vacationer on a W22 Chassis.
It has always had a little "whine" that sounds like the differential, but having it checked out did not indicate there was a problem.
Recently (after reading on different Class A forums about unlubricated U-joints) I decided that I would check the 4 U-joints and the slip joint.
Imagine my surprise when I got under there and started looking around that the driveshaft looks like a stretched out "Z". From the transmission the first section is about 1 1/2 inches to the right. The second section goes about 1 1/2 inches to the left, and the third section goes back about 1 1/2 inches to the right.
I can't believe that is the way it should be, and this may be causing the noise I hear.
I also believe that this is probably putting unnecessary stress on the pinion bearings and on the 2 steady bearings on the shaft.

Has anyone encountered this problem before??
I have sent a message to Workhorse but they have not replied.

P.S.
I am a retired Class "A" Auto Mechanic.

[rgrstndgby]

CDD, Im trying to picture what you have there.. Can you estimate if the pinion shaft in the differential is in line with the output shaft of the transmission?..It seems like the end result of all the angles, the differential is offset 1.5 inches to the right.. and that the second support bearing is putting the "jog" in things. Im assuming( ) WH prefers that the trans and differential be in line, tho over that length, some missalignment is probably ok. The intermediate angles tho, sound like way too much..I would measure the wheelbase, both sides and compare them as a start point, and see if everything is "pointing" the same direction.. I will crawl under my WH today and have a look to see how they could be arranged like yours are, but of course, yours needs to be corrected. I'm surprised it hasn't failed. As an "Old Wrench", you know how disasterous a broked driveshaft is, flying around under there. Do you know this units complete history?.. Any damage or dissasembly?.. rgr...

[NeilV]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rgrstndgby:
of course, yours needs to be corrected. I'm surprised it hasn't failed. As an "Old Wrench", you know how disasterous a broked driveshaft is, flying around under there. Do you know this units complete history?.. Any damage or dissasembly?.. rgr... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My father experienced one on a new Ford School Bus with very few miles on it. Drive shaft tube was defective and sheared. It dug into the pavement and pole vaulted the bus over the guard rail and down a ravine. Trying to protect the two kids that were on board from flying debris is what save him when the roof crushed down on the drivers seat. When the bus went flying he jumped in the back grabbed the kids and pinned them down between the rear seats and held them there as it rolled over down the hill. He was only 75 at the time.

You are right, don't mess around with a bad drive shaft setup, it is not worth the risk.

[caseydogsdad]

rgrstndgby

I bought this new, and have never had any damage, just a constant high pitched whine from the ?rear? (back of the coach).
It has never been apart that I know of.
While I was under there I also greased the 4 U-joints and the slip joint. On two of the joints the only grease that came out was the same as I was putting in. On the other two the grease that came out was crappy brown. The only grease that came out of the slip joint was also the new stuff.
I have had this rig lubed every 3500 miles, and I wonder if I should look after the Lube jobs myself?
The new gease was red (high temp wheel bearing grease).

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by caseydogsdad:
The new grease was red (high temp wheel bearing grease). </div></BLOCKQUOTE>My mechanical experiences with lubes is that you do not want to mix the 2 so ... go back under the unit and keep greasing until the brown stuff turns red. (Or as close as practical)

[Full-Timers]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by caseydogsdad:
I have a 2003 Vacationer on a W22 Chassis.
It has always had a little "whine" that sounds like the differential, but having it checked out did not indicate there was a problem.
Recently (after reading on different Class A forums about unlubricated U-joints) I decided that I would check the 4 U-joints and the slip joint.
Imagine my surprise when I got under there and started looking around that the driveshaft looks like a stretched out "Z". From the transmission the first section is about 1 1/2 inches to the right. The second section goes about 1 1/2 inches to the left, and the third section goes back about 1 1/2 inches to the right.
I can't believe that is the way it should be, and this may be causing the noise I hear.
I also believe that this is probably putting unnecessary stress on the pinion bearings and on the 2 steady bearings on the shaft.

Has anyone encountered this problem before??
I have sent a message to Workhorse but they have not replied.

P.S.
I am a retired Class "A" Auto Mechanic. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>If your drive shaft zig zags down the length of your coach, you have a real problem. I find it hard to believe though since I didn't think the carriers were adjustable from left to right. Mine all line up in a straight line.

[Horsepowerfan]

Hi caseydogsdad,

I can't say that I've personally encountered this problem with my coach, but you've brought up some really interesting points and it got me thinking. Uh-oh, watch out! So, I went out to my MH and crawled under to look at my driveshaft setup. (Incidentally, I grease my u-joints and slip yokes myself and the first time I did, I had to pump in alot of grease before anything was coming out!) It appeared that the front and middle shafts were pretty much in a straight line with each other, maybe not perfectly though and if anything the front shaft was offset just a smidge to the right at the first carrier bearing. The rear shaft was obviosly angled downward and to the right from the second carrier bearing to the differential. Looking at the carrier bearings and how they are mounted it doesn't appear as though they can be adjusted side to side. I haven't noticed any whine or vibration from my coach and I'm actually quite amazed at how smoothly it runs.

According to the Workhorse service information I have for my 2003 chassis, the lateral alignment of a 3 piece driveshaft assembly needs to be straight to prevent launch shudder or driveline vibration. Do you notice any vibration or do you only hear the whine? IMHO, it's unlikely that the slight driveshaft misalignment you describe is causing the whine or undue stress on the pinion bearings, however like the others have said you may have a problem there and it should be checked out. The recommended procedure for correcting driveshaft lateral alignment is to relocate the carrier bearing(s) as needed so that all 3 shafts are in line with each other. I'm not sure how you'd do this though without drilling new mounting holes for the carrier bearings or grinding the holes out to form slots.

Typically, a whine noise is caused by the meshing of gears and is usually associated with rear axles and transmissions. I'd start by checking the rear axle lube level and make sure it's OK. From what I've been taught and read regarding rear axles some noise is considered normal, but just like you, if I was hearing mine whine I'd be concerned.

It would be interesting to hear what Workhorse has to say about this if you do get a reply from them. Hope this helps and good luck!

[rgrstndgby]

CDD, I just got a chance to crawl under my coach today, and surprise , I have some offset too, tho not as much as you describe. The ground under my coach is rocky, and doesn't encourage alot of prowling around, so I only took a quick look. When I have it on something smooth, I will stringline it and see just what I have. It looks like my first center bearing is possibly 1 inch to the pass side. I can't eyeball any offset in the second CB., nor can I determine if the pinion shaft is in direct line with the trans output shaft.. Now, having said all that, and after seeing this on my own coach, it seems like I have a dim .. DIM I say, memory from 30/40 years ago where in some application of multiple shafts, and U joints arranged in a row, some offset on one or more of the joints was utilized to stabilize the assembly. I am not a trained engineer, but from alot of fabrication, and shade tree design, I think that makes sense.. Also, my coach had an intense driveline session at the dealer when it was new. The MoHo had a bad whine, I KNEW it was the differential, but the dealer, and a WH rep, insisted it was DL alignmrent, and spent 2 days, w/2 mechs aligning, shiming, test driving etc..etc.. before finally believing it was the center section, and replaced it, eliminating the whine.. Point of all this is, that makes me belive that my driveline, offset and all, is as WH wants it.. 25,000 miles and no DL vibration.... BTW, doing your own lube is smart, and using a powered lube gun makes it alot easier. Be sure to get the slide splines well lubed,...rgr...