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Old 01-01-2007, 02:56 PM   #1
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After 7,500 miles on a realitively new 2006 W24 with 8.1 engine I started to experience a significant engine miss under acceleration load passing 4th gear in the 2900 to 3400 rpm range. Folks over at RV.Net said this forum has all the answers and are suggesting I may have burnt plug wires. I did compain about the miss to a Workhorse authorized shop. They agreed that there was a rumble but said the computer didn't show a thing on a test drive and they suggested I have the coach checked for transmission flutter by Allison. After a lengthly chat with the rebuild shop forman at Allison I think my original complaint of "engine miss" was correct and it is ilogical to suspect the transmission.

I just looked over all the plug wires and none appear stiff or burnt and the engine/manifold to wire airspacing looks the same on all wires.

I feel a bit foolish asking another Workhorse shop to look at the wires when I can't see a problem but I am not intimately familiar with where these wires actually get burnt.

Will I see arcing if it's a plug wire problem? Where do the wires burn? Or, am I barking at the wrong cat. Thanking you,
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Old 01-01-2007, 02:56 PM   #2
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After 7,500 miles on a realitively new 2006 W24 with 8.1 engine I started to experience a significant engine miss under acceleration load passing 4th gear in the 2900 to 3400 rpm range. Folks over at RV.Net said this forum has all the answers and are suggesting I may have burnt plug wires. I did compain about the miss to a Workhorse authorized shop. They agreed that there was a rumble but said the computer didn't show a thing on a test drive and they suggested I have the coach checked for transmission flutter by Allison. After a lengthly chat with the rebuild shop forman at Allison I think my original complaint of "engine miss" was correct and it is ilogical to suspect the transmission.

I just looked over all the plug wires and none appear stiff or burnt and the engine/manifold to wire airspacing looks the same on all wires.

I feel a bit foolish asking another Workhorse shop to look at the wires when I can't see a problem but I am not intimately familiar with where these wires actually get burnt.

Will I see arcing if it's a plug wire problem? Where do the wires burn? Or, am I barking at the wrong cat. Thanking you,
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Old 01-01-2007, 03:46 PM   #3
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Paul T:
Will I see arcing if it's a plug wire problem? Where do the wires burn? Or, am I barking at the wrong cat. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Paul T, It would be nice to know what type of box is on the rail. Now regarding burnt plug wires, most often we have seen where the wire is completely severed at the top of the plug connector. The break is hidden deep inside the plug boot and in order to get a handle on which wire might be broken, each plug wire would need to be removed and inspected for integrity.

Most burn outs that have been presented here occur at the number 5 and 7 wires and to a lesser degree we have seen others - but not often.

If the wire is burned through there will be 2 signs that a overheat condition occurred.

Removing the plug wire from the top of the plug may leave you with 2 pieces of wire in your hand. This would be indisputable evidence that the wire overheated and broke.

Second - look at the spark plug boot shield, it's metal, if it presents as black inside the shield an overheat condition has occurred. A normal shield is red/orange in color.

Repeated plug wire burn outs are resolved by applying either a passive or an active cold air kit. Most often the passive CAK works well and applies enough cooling air to prevent future plug wire burn outs.

Some engine enclosures are more prone than others in that the required air flow is not adequate to prevent burn outs. I haven't had any wire burn outs and I have over 53,000 miles of some hard driving at times.

WCC will be able to get your situation resolved and you'll be good to go in no time at all.

Welcome to the Workhorse Chassis Owners Forum and we tip our hat in appreciation to those rv.net folks that suggested you would find a solution to your problems here on iRV2.

Please feel welcome and thanks for joining us.
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Old 01-01-2007, 05:27 PM   #4
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Yes welcome Paul T to irv2 and the Workhorse forum.
You got the word from himself,DriVer, will not add much more but if you go to "FIND" just above you and type in "burnt wires" you will have 37 more answers on your subject.
Enjoy all the forums on irv2 and do post often.
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Old 01-01-2007, 09:18 PM   #5
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I Thank you for your help. It's a Itasca Suncruiser on a W-24 on top of the rails. The toad is a Honda CR-V.
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Old 01-01-2007, 09:27 PM   #6
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I just finished perusing the suggested posts and feel a bit better educated. I'm just a bit surprized that this engine could STILL have such a problem without WH addressing it in a global manner.

I failed to mention the coach description -- 2006 Itasca Suncruiser on a W-24 with a Honda CR-V toad.

I had crossed some passes leaving northern CA just prior to experiencing the problem. Jugging up a few of those hills at 4500 rpm and 45 mph probably did warm things up a bit. On the road tomarrow with a fresh tank of gas so will have a better picture in the next 350 miles. Thx for the help.
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Old 01-02-2007, 05:46 AM   #7
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Orginally Posted by Paul T:
I'm just a bit surprised that this engine could STILL have such a problem without WH addressing it in a global manner. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In many cases this is NOT a Workhorse issue as the OEM has not provided the proper air flow from the front of the coach. In some cases the grill opening is to small, in other cases the air flow is blocked by equipment. The solution in many cases is to add some heavy duty plug wires.
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Old 01-02-2007, 05:53 AM   #8
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Paul,

Believe it or not, some engine misfires won't set a check engine light, therefore your dealer should watch engine misfire count on their TECH 2 and like Driver says you will most likely see #5 and 7 with many.
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Old 01-02-2007, 05:55 AM   #9
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Paul T you can add your chassis and tow info in the signature block 2nd pg of your profile. Do that and it will follow you where ever you go.
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Old 01-02-2007, 07:20 AM   #10
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by oemtech:
... The solution in many cases is to add so heavy duty plug wires.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>The only caveat if I might add is that some engine enclosures are "really" challenging and we have seen where Taylor Extremes have burned through as witnessed on certain 2005 Treks. The solution to this extreme problem was a powered CAK however the owner of the coach divested himself of the unit and the results that we were all looking for are unachieved.

Boo on the former owner!
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Old 01-02-2007, 07:04 PM   #11
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Hi Driver, Was the 2005 Trek on a 2004 or 2005 chassis? As noted, I have a 2006 Trek 28RB2 on a 2005 chassis. Need I be concerned? Do you know which model Trek you had been dealing with?

Thanks,
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Old 01-03-2007, 04:46 AM   #12
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WilyRay:
Do you know which model Trek you had been dealing with? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You may want to ask our "new" National RV, Pacifica owner, Jestme13, those questions however what I know about his coach was that it's an 05 Trek and one of 2 - P32s that were used on the last Safari Treks before they were bought out by Monaco. Steve was continuously challenged by overheating issues directly related to the engine enclosure.

I haven't heard of any problems with W-Series chassis installed on Monaco/HR Treks.
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Old 01-08-2007, 05:21 PM   #13
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Problem solved and thank all of you who helped confirm each others diagnosis. A Workhorse shop near San Diego replace the #5 & #8 plug wires after their computer pulled up a missfire on those cylinders. The tech said their diagnostic machine got down to a deeper level than most and was able to pick up the problem. (I don't understand these computers well enough to say any more). I begged to see the wires and I doubt I could have spotted any problems visually. The clip within #5 stayed on the plug according to the tech which made that one quite obvious but thye # 8 would have got by me for sure. The tech said the damasge was probably internal right at the plug boot area as many of you suggested. One metal shield was replaced. It was not real black inside, just a darker burnt orange color than a new one would have look like.

"CUMMINGS CAL PACIFIC" in El Cajon, (listed in the workhorse MH dealer web reference) solved the problem. I was told that should it happen again they would replace all wires and add air ducting to area. My 206 Itasca Suncruiser has a lot of room around the manafold area and the tech said he doubted if the problem would re-occur.

CUMMINGS CAL PACIFIC does have my recomendation. I was just a drop in from the oposite side of these United States.

I was doing some significant hill climbing the day before I noticed the problem during which I had numerous periods of high RPM in 4th and 3rd, -- and wonder if the heat build up with that type of driving had anything to do with the plug wire failures.
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Old 01-08-2007, 05:46 PM   #14
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Hello Mr Paul T, Do yourself a favor and carry a couple of extra plug wires with you. After you do your next long climb over a CA pass see if you don't have your miss back? I will bet you a premium beer that your #5 wire has burnt again. I never burnt a wire on the even side of the engine it was always 5 and 7 cyl. I am not convinced that it ever was an air flow problem as they would like to have you think. Workhorse did install the air kit, I did several things I thought would remedy the problem to no avail. When Workhorse installed a pair of BILGE BLOWERS to my rig to cool the plug wires that sounded like hair dryers on steroids I felt this was enough BS and sailed our beloved TREK down the road.
DriVer is correct to a point. Monaco used only 2 P32 chassis during the 2005 model year for the TREK. All other Treks were W chassis. And I have heard of several W chassis rigs with the burnt wire issue, go figure. Like I said I believe there is more to it then the air flow.

Hey Posum Face, Boo my butt. I know where you can pick up a nice Trek for a goog price. It even sounds like it has 2 mini jet engines under the dog box. Very loud, very annoying, be my guest, and report back to us the results. Maybe Workhorse could buy it back for research? Heavy wires my butt. My Taylors lasted about 100 miles
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