Community Forums

747Driver · 03-18-2004, 08:11 PM

Here's a new one. I trust gages. In my business you live and die by keeping an eye on them. Well, I have been impressed by the 8.1 running at a VERY steady temp. Uphill, down hill, all hills, one needle width below dead center between hot and cold. It does start out on Cold and move up, but only to the one needle width below the middle mark.

Well I just got home from a trip thru a couple deserts that were in the low 90's with AC on and going up and down hills, still no movement. I'm starting to believe I have an indication problem.

How about it guys. Does your temp gage have a life of movement or is it steady as a rock?

747Driver · 03-18-2004, 08:11 PM

Here's a new one. I trust gages. In my business you live and die by keeping an eye on them. Well, I have been impressed by the 8.1 running at a VERY steady temp. Uphill, down hill, all hills, one needle width below dead center between hot and cold. It does start out on Cold and move up, but only to the one needle width below the middle mark.

Well I just got home from a trip thru a couple deserts that were in the low 90's with AC on and going up and down hills, still no movement. I'm starting to believe I have an indication problem.

How about it guys. Does your temp gage have a life of movement or is it steady as a rock?

clipperbob · 03-19-2004, 01:05 AM

My temp gauge behaves the same way. I believe I have read elsewhere that Workhorse has this gauge manufactured / calibrated in such a way that it works more like an idiot light. It reads that everything is great just up until the point that its not. Witnessing the action of my temp gauge I believe this story must be true.

Allegedly, the purpose of this design is to keep the "typical" owner happier and avoid undue panic when the needle climbs a bit. Many owners (such as myself) do not like this at all as it eliminates warning and predictability.

Can anyone confirm or deny this with fact?

DriVer · 03-19-2004, 03:53 AM

Temperature Gauge

Gentlemen, I have experience with both the "01" analog dash and the new "03" dash cluster with the LCD message center.

The 01 temp gauge rose and fell many times per hour depending on the current load of the engine. As the gauge climbed it was very predictable as to when the cooling fans would kick in and on cue, they kicked in. This proved to be the manner in which this gauge operated it rose and fell many times however exactly what quality of data is I was looking at as a driver was subject to interpretation. Since the gauge kept moving all the time, within its normal range of travel, it was all an exercise of watching the needle travel within its normal operating range and nothing more.

The 03 gauge is different and I feel comfortable with it more so than the 01 gauge. The normal operating range of our cooling systems is 190? to 240?. Therefore there are 3 operating ranges that have to concern us. There's low temp, normal and hi temp.

If the temp is low it'll soon attain a normal temperature as the engine warms up. So there's nothing to worry about.

After the engine has achieved its normal operating temperature, a casual reaffirming glance at the needle sitting on the 3 o'clock position is actually averaging a range in between 190? to 240?. The J1850 bus system directs a signal to the gauge and what we see is a steady 3 o'clock normal display. At this point there is nothing to worry about.

If the needle reads hi, then you still have nothing to worry about because you will be warned by a high temp lamp and the gauge will indicate an overheat at which point you can take the appropriate action to pull off the road and determine the problem. Since we don't carry engine coolant or any other cooling system repair items, there isn't any purpose in worrying. Call the 800 number, get a beverage turn on the TV sit back and wait for the service truck. What else can we do? There certainly isn't any pressing need to develop an aneurysm about this issue so we might as well try to remain in control and don't worry about it.

In closing here are a few other cooling system facts. The main engine cooling fan operates in between 800 to 1400 rpm when the "radiator discharge air temperature" is below 150?. Above 150? temperatures the fan spins at maximum speed.

The electric fans assist in engine cooling, transmission oil cooling and air conditioning condenser cooling. These fans are controlled by the PCM and will operate when the dash air conditioning compressor is running OR when the engine temperature is above 221?.

Note: Factory installed temperature gauges have been calibrated so that the owner sees a mid-range reading as the "normal" operating temperature. The reason for this is that many owners tend to perceive 212? F as the boiling point. However, this is not the case with a 15-lb pressure system and a 50/50 solution of engine coolant and water. A system like this actually pushes the boiling point out to 264.4? The purpose of any guage is to provide warning of any rapid change from the "normal" reading of that particular gauge.

Sit back, relax, and enjoy the ride.

Dave from MN · 03-19-2004, 04:57 AM

I believe running the heater hose through the water heater helps keep the engine heat at a steady level. On my 32V Adventurer (V10 Ford), the engine heat guage was always steady.
A person could get over get over confident & get catch napping with a over heating problem!

Logthumper · 03-19-2004, 05:12 AM

I added "real" gauges in addition to the "soft" gauges in my Powerstroke. Am doing the same thing with the Adventurer with the GM 8.1. Has anyone already added a second Water Temp Sender? If so save me some time and tell me where etc.

Just got the AutoTap interface and program for the laptop. Scans Basic Codes and Enhances Codes and Reads out more infor than you would believe.

DriVer · 03-19-2004, 07:05 AM

Logthumper, That gauge setup that you installed on your motorhome could not have be done any better by a professional. Nice job. Did you tie in the lights to the existing dimmer circuit?

If I were going to do this type of installation, this is how I would like to have it done.

DriVer · 03-19-2004, 07:08 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dave from MN:
I believe running the heater hose through the water heater helps keep the engine heat at a steady level. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>The gauges are pre-programmed to display in the manner they do so I don't see any mechanical equipment coming into play that influences the read out. Thanks for sharing.

clipperbob · 03-19-2004, 07:15 AM

So this confirms what I had read, if I understand this correctly... the needle never moves from 3 o'clock until there is a problem, I assume at 241 degrees in the perfect world, when the idiot light also comes on and you suddenly without warning discover that you are in an overheat situation. I think I would rather know that I was running at maybe 235 or something like that...some advance warning...

DriVer · 03-19-2004, 07:40 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by clipperbob:
I think I would rather know that I was running at maybe 235 or something like that...some advance warning... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It's not going to help much knowing that your engine is running at 235?. This is well within the normal operating range.

The gauge is designed to warn you in the event that a failure in the cooling system has occurred. There isn't much wiggle room in between the upper limit of normal and overheating. It's only 25? or so. When an engine begins to overheat it'll shoot past 254? in a heartbeat because and engine makes a lot of heat.

Further your engine will never run at the uppermost limit of the normal range because the fans (3 of them) will be kicking in and working overtime to pull down the temperature.

If you don't hear all those fans kick in when your climbing a mountain, you'll have to emulate Scoby Doo and give it a well deserved, "Ruut Rooh", and try to figure out what's going on.

So normal is normal until it become abnormal. No gauge is going to give you any comfort that an incipient fault is going to occur to your cooling system. Your cooling system will only tell you 2 things, it's workin' or it isn't. Knowing the incremental stages of normal is only something that provides limited functionality.

clipperbob · 03-19-2004, 11:30 AM

That makes sense !!

Thanks.

DriVer · 03-19-2004, 04:10 PM

Logthumper, Oops! I accidentally deleted your post. What appeared to be a duplicate post, it happens around here when folks click too many times on the post button, we get carbon copies of the post. I delted what I believed was the 2nd copy however on furthur review the entire post disappeared.

Please repost your comments, thanks.

Logthumper · 03-19-2004, 04:29 PM

DriVer:
Boy your fast. Looked at my post and it was there twice???? So I deleated the second one. Must have been at the same time you deleted the first one. Thanks for the compliment. Yep, I do enjoy doing this kind of stuff. May not make sense to some people, but it makes sense and a lot of enjoyment to me. No the gauge lights are not tied into anything for dimming. We do very little night time driving and I would rather not have anymore lights in front of me. The gauges are up high and can easily be seen. I did place a resister in series with the 12 volts going to the LCD Transmission Temperature Gauge so the numbers are not so bright. Will do the same when the water temp gauge is installed.

Blue Ribbon · 04-20-2005, 06:04 AM

What brand didgital Transmission Temp. gauge are you using?

Where is the transducer located? If in tranny pan, did you drain oil, drop pan, to drill & tap?

The Banks gauge uses 1/8" pipe thread, which takes a reasonabale amount of meat to get at least a few threads.