Fuel Pump Problem

[RetiredSKP]

Fellow RV'ers,

This will be a rather long post I fear. We have had a horrific five days with breakdowns. Let me say now that I have been on this site every day searching for information regarding our problem. The members of this site share so much and I have learned so much about this problem that I was able to discuss it with various service technicians and service writers and not sound like an idiot. I thank everyone involved in this site very very much for all the information. It is now my turn to share what I have learned from this experience.

Our rig is a 2001 Dutch Star on a 2001 W22 Workhorse Chassis. 8.1 Liter engine.

We were in Las Vegas, NV and headed for Pahrump, in the hills west of Las Vegas. We took route 160. I could not get above 30 mph climbing the hills. I did not see any signs indicating the percent of grade so I cannot tell you what it was. We stayed four nights at the Escapees Co-Op, Pair-A-Dice. I wasn't really sure what was going on but we headed back to Las Vegas and had no problem at all climbing hills on the trip back. We stayed two more nights with relatives in LV.

We left Las Vegas on a Thursday morning and headed north on I-15. We got as far as Utah. While climbing a steep grade between exit 31 and 33 the transmission shifted down first one, then two, then three, then four gears. By then it became apparent that the engine had quit. We were off to the side but about two feet of the rig still out in the lane.

I called Good Sam ERS and they dispatched a wrecker. He arrived in about 45 minutes. Before he arrived I tried to start the engine and it started. I was able to drive forward and to the right, the rig now being entirely out of the traffic lane. The tow truck arrived and I told him about being able to move. He suggested that we try it before hooking up. I did and, following him, accelerated up the rest of the hill and soon was up to 60 mph. We drove to Cedar City and he told me by cell phone to exit and proceed to a campground in town and he would visit with me later and make arrangements to get the rig into an RV service center later on. He had received another call to pick up a wreck on the highway.

We exited as instructed and proceeded to the bottom of the exit ramp and stopped at the stop sign. When I tried to proceed through the intersection the engine sputtered, the coach barely moved and the engine died. We waited for about five minutes and tried to restart. It did and we were able to move across the intersection into a Shell gas station.

We waited for about fifteen minutes. I was getting directions and phone number to the RV Service Center and deciding whether to call for a tow again. I made arrangements for service the next day. The rig started again and we proceeded to the campground and set up for the night.

The next day the service tech removed the fuel filter, declared it to be stopped up, and replaced it. He then hooked a fuel pressure gauge to the fuel rail on top of the engine and started the rig. The pressure was 52 lbs. He let it idle for about one half hour and declared the problem fixed.

We left Cedar City and drove north about 120 miles until I decided to stop at a Flying J in Nephi, UT. At the bottom of the exit ramp, same symptom as before. The engine sputtered and died. We waited ten minutes and then started and drove into the Flying J. We called Good Sam ERS again and they made arrangements for a mobile service tech to contact us. He decided that the problem was fuel pump and tried to locate one. We stayed the night in the Flying J and the next day the tech called and told me he couldn't get a pump until Tuesday. This was Saturday.

Asking around I found that a local NAPA store was open and visited him. I found that he had an "inline fuel pump"� made for fuel injected engines and a place called Doyles, across the highway from the Flying J was open and would work on it that day. I bought the pump and proceeded to Doyles. They left me flat and wouldn't start until Monday. I returned the pump and proceeded north.

On the Internet I found four authorized Workhorse Chassis Repair shops in the Salt Lake City Area. A few calls later and we had an appointment with Mike Riddel in Woods Cross. We drove to Ogden and stayed two nights at Century RV Park.

On Monday morning we arrived at Mike Riddel and they started work on the rig. They found the fuel pump to be defective. They found the fuel filter put on in Cedar City was clean and clear and they put it back on. They found the return line for returning fuel to the tank was deteriorated. It is rubber and they replace it. They saw evidence of a leak at that hose and we had experienced fuel spilling out from behind the rear wheels when we filled up in Kingman, Arizona a few weeks earlier.

They told me that the original style fuel pump on my unit was in a cylinder and had the intake line, in a sock, in this cylinder. The return fuel line also emptied into this cylinder. This caused the pump to return heated fuel to the engine, sometimes causing vapor lock. The accepted fix was to make a hole in the cylinder and pull the sock out the hole, allowing the pump to get cool fuel. The redesigned pump that I now have has the inlet and sock outside of the cylinder, thereby eliminating the problem.

I also asked them to check for computer fault codes. They found "02 sensor codes for lean condition and knock sensor code for detonation"�. In most of the searches I found on this site, people with similar symptoms indicated no codes found. They "Installed 25178145 :*Module (03107-CT). Maybe Driver can tell us if this is the "new improved fuel pump"�. They also stated that fuel pressure was "Approx half of what it should have been"�.

I sincerely hope that this helps someone and if anyone has any questions, please do not hesitate to ask. I apologize once again for the length and thank all once again for the excellent information I found in the searches.

RetiredSKP

[DriVer]

Quote:

Originally posted by RetiredSKP: This will be a rather long post I fear.

We fear no post regardless of length if it as well written and makes a point like yours does. Thank you for sharing.

Quote:

We were in Las Vegas, NV and headed for Pahrump, in the hills west of Las Vegas. We took route 160. I could not get above 30 mph climbing the hills. I did not see any signs indicating the percent of grade so I cannot tell you what it was.

I just wrote about this not too long ago and I found out that the grade is 7% and it all of a sudden sneaks up on the unwary motorhome traveler. I believe if I knew that the grade was there I would have gotten on the throttle a lot earlier than I did. I was just loafing along with my jaw dropped open soaking in the geology when "Bam!" 28 MPH all the way to the top - SO it's not you! You are also correct and my experience the same as yours for the East bound trip back to Vegas - No Problem. I made it up that grade so fast I had to slow down some. I'm glad to read that someone else had the same experience.

Now listen up everyone! When you come out of Vegas on the 160 (Blue Diamond Highway) westbound and just before beginning to negotiate the grade "Hammer Down!"

Quote:

I bought the pump and proceeded to Doyles. They left me flat and wouldn't start until Monday. I returned the pump and proceeded north.

I think perhaps this was a blessing

Quote:

They saw evidence of a leak at that hose and we had experienced fuel spilling out from behind the rear wheels when we filled up in Kingman, Arizona a few weeks earlier.

I can not say for sure if the events were related however an unknown discharge of fuel requires immediate attention. Fixing just the leak at that point may not have caught the defective fuel pump so you might have had to do this procedure twice.

Quote:

I also asked them to check for computer fault codes. They found "02 sensor codes for lean condition and knock sensor code for detonation"�.

The codes are most likely related to the lean condition that was related to lack of fuel from the pump.

Quote:

They "Installed 25178145 :*Module (03107-CT). Maybe Driver can tell us if this is the "new improved fuel pump"�. They also stated that fuel pressure was "Approx half of what it should have been"�.

There is one member here that may be able to speak to that part number and it is logical that a replacement pump would be better designed. I'm still running the same fuel pump approaching 60,000 miles.

Thank you for sharing your experiences. I hope that you will be able to go forward trouble free without these challenges for the foreseeable future.

[LeeB]

Quote:

RetiredSKP

I had a similar problem last week coming from Calif. into Kingman Az. I to replaced the fuel filter and it was plugged. How ever the problem cropped up again the next day. I made a whole bunch of phone calls and after much talking decided what I could do is not let my fuel fall below 1/2 tank and it seemed to cure the problem (FOR NOW) whats going to happen in the future is a good question. I am going to need to find a workhorse dealer when we return to Modesto and have the fuel pump problem fixed. I am out of warrenty and am not sure how much it is going to cost.... I am not sure if we are going to be able to afford the repair...

Right now I am in Tennessee heading for Calif. via Idaho at the end of the week I can only hope going I-80 I will not have any problems..

RetiredSKP if you read this can you tell me how much it cost you? So I have some idea on what to prepare my wife for...

[RetiredSKP]

LeeB,

I just looked at my invoice and realized that they did not put down the total cost. Only my charges. I have the CSP plan from Good Sam. I saw the invoice going to them and it was over $1000.00. I am going to go back there today and get a copy of the total charges as I asked for in the beginning. We are staying in the area because I fear traveling again on the 4th of July. If we broke down again, well, there would be no one to help and no where to go.

My charges were $500.00 for my deductible, $47.50 for labor and $20.65 for parts to replace the return line hose, $3.33 for shop supplies, and $37.15 for tax, coming to $608.63.

[begin edit] I stopped at Mike Riddle Mitsubishi today and got an invoice showing the total charges. The total was $522.50 for labor on the fuel pump replacement, and $519.40 for the fuel pump. Take away my $500.00 deductible and CSP paid $541.00. The other items that were my responsibility are shown above. [end edit]

RetiredSKP

[John-D]

In days of old fuel pumps were simpler beasts and engines had carbs, not injectors.

I had one fail, The story is quite long but it kept shedding stuff into the needle valve (In fact I had two which did this) finally fixed it.

Sounds like you found a good service center.

[Tom N]

Quote:

Originally posted by RetiredSKP: The next day the service tech removed the fuel filter, declared it to be stopped up, and replaced it. RetiredSKP

Can you tell me if this was the original fuel filter. If it wasn't how many miles were on it???

-Tom

[parts_expert]

Quote:

Originally posted by RetiredSKP: They "Installed 25178145 :*Module (03107-CT). Maybe Driver can tell us if this is the "new improved fuel pump"�.

I'm not sure what you mean by "new improved" but your 2001 W22 received the proper part number. This is a GM carry-over part number from pre-Workhorse days. By "new improved", maybe you're referring to this-- The pump module number is different for most 2002-2003 W-series, which is 25315352. This is a Workhorse exclusive number. I haven't explored into the specific differences between these numbers, but the 25315352 will not work in your 2001.

[scoutmstr]

As part_expert stated 2003 W chassis used 25315352, prev version which yours is uses 25178145 and previous to that is the 25178125 all for the 8.1. Still looking for the conversion numbers to the Dephi 7000 fuel module series who made these pumps. I understand (unconfirmed) that Delphi no longer makes the pump and WCC is trying to find a new supplier.

[max49]

Retired SKP, do you remember how much fuel you had when you were having problems? My old Ford class C started giving me problems if it got down to a 1/4 tank and it was hot out. I never had any trouble with it if I did'nt let it get below 1/2. I did have the fuel pump changed tho for a little over $800.
WH paid to have my fuel pump replaced. The only symptom I got was a one time 'reduced engine power' or 'limp mode, I turned it off and restarted , the check engine light remained on from Co to So. Ca. and back home but the engine ran fine. The svc cntr said the code indicated a bad fuel pump, go figure. It did take close to 2 weeks to get a fuel pump to Denver. That's pretty sad.

[oemtech]

Quote:

I understand (unconfirmed) that Delphi no longer makes the pump and WCC is trying to find a new supplier.

Oh boy here we go again. This sounds like the fuel filter debacle. The filter is a proprietary design, was sole sourced and the company went bankrupt. What other parts are sole sourced?

[Full-Timers]

I had starting problems at about 10,000 miles. I diagnosed it to low fuel pressure and told the Workhorse Service Center what I discovered. He was smart enough to order a filter and pump. He had them overnighted after I told him I was on the road. Before replacement fuel pressure took 3 cycles of the ignition to build 55psi. After the replacement it jumped to 60psi on the first cycle. Never had a problem since. At first I thought the pump replacement was unnecessary and he only did it to make a little more money on the job. After reading this post I am glad he had the foresight to replace the pump. If you ever need service in the Sioux Falls, SD area go to The Truck Center.

[RetiredSKP]

John-D

Yes, I was very happy with the way they treated me at Mike Riddle. I dealt with Herb Zuber. I will certainly return to them if I have another problem and I am in the area.

Tom N

I do not know if the filter replaced first at Cedar City was the original. I bought the rig used when it had 18400 miles on it. I now have 24000.

Parts_expert

All I know is what Herb told me. He said that the "new improved"� version of the pump had the intake and associated sock filter on the outside of the cylinder so that it would not draw the heated fuel being returned to the cylinder. I did not see the old one come out nor the new one go in.

Max49

I filled up at the Flying J on I-15 and Cheyenne Ave in Las Vegas and drove 139 miles when the symptom first occurred. At approximately 7 miles to the gallon, that would have used approximately 20 gallons. 75 gallons minus 20 gallons leaves 55 gallons.

Have a great Fourth of July everyone.

RetiredSKP

[LeeB]

Thanks SKP....
We are in Tenn. right now and plan on heading back to Calif tomorrow via I-40. I am going to nurse it back home by keeping the fuel tank 1/2 full.. At least now I have a price ($1500 + or -)that I can go by. I may see about getting the work done at Redlands. Even though Redlands is 500 miles from my home. I am going to go home first and then make arrangements to take my MH to them and just leave it for a week or so... That way they can work on it and not be rushed.... Unless anyone here knows of a Workhorse dealer close to the Modesto Calif. area? Thats NOT Dan Gamel.......

Tonight is Workhorse Chat at 9 eastern time and I hope to be there... (If I remember) LoL

[DriVer]

Quote:

Originally posted by LeeB:

If you are going home via the I-40 you could always swing up to Branson and attend the Chat "Live" from the 2007 iRV2.com National Rally.