In 2010 How Do We Say -- Good Bye L18 and Hello LS(?) ?

[DriVer]

It's only 1 model year away!

I've just seen where GM can take a 7.0L engine and give it 505 HP and 475 lbs/ft of torque. Now if this engine were not hand built and so expensive I think that it would make an excellent replacement for the 8.1 L18 engine we're currently using.

We have come to read that the 8.1L engine is being retired. It would seem altogether appropriate that we begin the discussion regarding which engine is going to be powering our Workhorse motorhomes past 2010.

You go from 4 bolt mains to 6 bolt mains which tells me that the bottom end on this thing should be able to handle the loads we may need to develop in a Class 6 vehicle. According to Wikepedia "The LS series is a new design intended as the only V-8 engine utilized in General Motors' line of RWD cars and trucks. The LS series was a clean sheet design with nothing in common with the classic Chevrolet small block V8. The LS is all-aluminum and has 6-bolt main bearing caps.

The LS engine has been the sole powerplant of the Chevrolet Corvette since 1997 and has seen use in a wide variety of other General Motors vehicles, ranging from sport coupes to full size trucks. Due to the engine's relatively compact external dimensions compared to its displacement and power output, the engine family is also a popular choice for kit cars, hot rods and even light aircraft."

The crystal ball is somewhat clouded at this point since nobody is talking what's going to be the logical replacement for the L18 in 2010 but it would definitely seem that the "General" does have some options for manufacturers that want to use gasoline engines. There's a 3rd party builder called Holden Special Vehicles that uses the LS7 and the engine is also available as a crate engine. The 2009 Cadillac is supposed to get the LS7 and the list I'm sure will no doubt grow from there.

If we are talking about a "cast iron" block for use in a motorhome would the LSX engine be a consideration. This engine I see can handle up to 2500HP in sizes all the way up to 511 cu in. It's basically a cast iron LS7 I believe.

Does anyone think that we're going to see an even smaller engine in the 6.0L range like the Vortec 6000 with one or more turbos? I'm thinking that a small block may not give us enough twist on them axles.

Can we expect to see a commercially mass produced version of an LS engine that can power a motorhome? The UFO with its Universal Fuel Option is certainly a prime candidate for a new engine from 2010 onward it would appear. Do we see an LS type gasoline engine or will we see an equivalently sized Max Force 7 twin turbo diesel engine as the standard power plant?


<LI> 505 horsepower / 475 lb.-ft. torque
<LI> Racing technology transfer takes production engine performance to new heights
<LI> Racing-derived CNC-ported aluminum cylinder heads
<LI> Each engine assembled by hand by a single, specially-trained builder

Read all about it!
<span class="ev_code_RED">LS7: The Largest, Most Powerful Small-Block Ever Built</span>

[DriVer]

It's only 1 model year away!

I've just seen where GM can take a 7.0L engine and give it 505 HP and 475 lbs/ft of torque. Now if this engine were not hand built and so expensive I think that it would make an excellent replacement for the 8.1 L18 engine we're currently using.

We have come to read that the 8.1L engine is being retired. It would seem altogether appropriate that we begin the discussion regarding which engine is going to be powering our Workhorse motorhomes past 2010.

You go from 4 bolt mains to 6 bolt mains which tells me that the bottom end on this thing should be able to handle the loads we may need to develop in a Class 6 vehicle. According to Wikepedia "The LS series is a new design intended as the only V-8 engine utilized in General Motors' line of RWD cars and trucks. The LS series was a clean sheet design with nothing in common with the classic Chevrolet small block V8. The LS is all-aluminum and has 6-bolt main bearing caps.

The LS engine has been the sole powerplant of the Chevrolet Corvette since 1997 and has seen use in a wide variety of other General Motors vehicles, ranging from sport coupes to full size trucks. Due to the engine's relatively compact external dimensions compared to its displacement and power output, the engine family is also a popular choice for kit cars, hot rods and even light aircraft."

The crystal ball is somewhat clouded at this point since nobody is talking what's going to be the logical replacement for the L18 in 2010 but it would definitely seem that the "General" does have some options for manufacturers that want to use gasoline engines. There's a 3rd party builder called Holden Special Vehicles that uses the LS7 and the engine is also available as a crate engine. The 2009 Cadillac is supposed to get the LS7 and the list I'm sure will no doubt grow from there.

If we are talking about a "cast iron" block for use in a motorhome would the LSX engine be a consideration. This engine I see can handle up to 2500HP in sizes all the way up to 511 cu in. It's basically a cast iron LS7 I believe.

Does anyone think that we're going to see an even smaller engine in the 6.0L range like the Vortec 6000 with one or more turbos? I'm thinking that a small block may not give us enough twist on them axles.

Can we expect to see a commercially mass produced version of an LS engine that can power a motorhome? The UFO with its Universal Fuel Option is certainly a prime candidate for a new engine from 2010 onward it would appear. Do we see an LS type gasoline engine or will we see an equivalently sized Max Force 7 twin turbo diesel engine as the standard power plant?


<LI> 505 horsepower / 475 lb.-ft. torque
<LI> Racing technology transfer takes production engine performance to new heights
<LI> Racing-derived CNC-ported aluminum cylinder heads
<LI> Each engine assembled by hand by a single, specially-trained builder

Read all about it!
<span class="ev_code_RED">LS7: The Largest, Most Powerful Small-Block Ever Built</span>

[UFO Pilot]

Wonder if I could fit one of these into my Corvette?

[Davel]

Driver,

The LS series has proven itself to be a strong reliable engine that out-shines either the small block or big block engines of the past. I would like to see something in the 427 cu. in. size with a turbo and forged internals. I did a search of "turbo" and "fuel economy" a while back and there are several sites that claim improved fuel mileage through the use of turbos. We might "have our cake and be able to eat it too".

At any rate the cast iron block that GM sells now with the much improved heads available would make the new engine better in every way than the current big block, and the current engine is a great one.

At the very least it will be interesting to see what the "General" does for big torque motors that large trucks and motor homes need.

Dave

[Jackm]

The topic of engine type may be a function of the type of RVs that are prevalent ten years from now. With the price of fuel being so high, I have a hard time picturing lots full of 45-foot motorhomes that weigh 26,000 pounds.

In 2018, power may not be the big issue that it is today. What do you think we'll be driving ten years from now?

Jack

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jackm:
The topic of engine type may be a function of the type of RVs that are prevalent ten years from now. With the price of fuel being so high, I have a hard time picturing lots full of 45-foot motorhomes that weigh 26,000 pounds. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Jackm, The problem isn't so much with 45 foot motorhomes as those units will continue to be manufactured at near industry capacity and there's a waiting list a mile long for one of those coaches. A 45 foot motorcoach as it sits weighs more than 26,000 out the door. I doubt that we'll ever see a gasoline engine in a 45 foot motorhome.

This situation is real and it does not begin 10 years from now. If this situation were going to develop 10 years from now there would be time to come up with something. The imperative to find a replacement engine all begins with the 2010 model year. The 09 model year begins on Tuesday.

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Davel:
I would like to see something in the 427 cu. in. size with a turbo and forged internals. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Dave, We can bring out of retirement those chromed V8 cross flagged 427 fender badges!



Those were the days!

[two2go]

The Ford V10 has comparable ratings to the 8.1 with less displacement, so GM ought to be able to compete. I am happy with my Vortec overall when I compare my 8+ MPG hauling over 24k lb. vs. a 1978 Class C with a Dodge 400 CID that did little better with less than 10k lb.
Turbo-charging on a gas engine would help us guys at high altitude, but I would not want to have to use premium fuel. Given injection and ignition technology, is it possible to control the injection of gas to get better efficiency similar to diesels?

[DonavonP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by two2go:
Given injection and ignition technology, is it possible to control the injection of gas to get better efficiency similar to diesels? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here's some info on Homogeneous Charge Compression Igniton or HCCI that GM is working on.

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by two2go:
The Ford V10 has comparable ratings to the 8.1 with less displacement... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I have heard from a reputable source and it is my understanding that the entire line of Triton series engines is going the same route as the L19 and so is the Dodge V-10 for that matter.

An entirely new architecture in engines is going to be required from 2010 and forward to comply with Federal Emissions Standards and fuel economy ratings from the vehicle buying public. The LS series engines are well on the way to meet both the public expectation for MPGs and the Federal compliance standards.

About "comparable ratings to the 8.1 with less displacement" remember the L19 makes it's horsepower and torque and much less RPM than the V-10. What's not comparable is the MPGs of one engine vs the other. The Vortec engines do much better across the board and the LS engines are fantastic. Imagine if you will a 505 HP engine that gets 25 MPG on the highway.

Now you can see what the "General" has up his sleeve.

[dieselclacker]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by DriVer:
Imagine if you will a 505 HP engine that gets 25 MPG on the highway


Yeah, right, maybe in a Corvette, but not pulling 21000 pounds.

In your dreams DriVer, in your dreams.

Dieselclacker

[Davel]

Driver,

Those were the days. My daily driver in 1967 was a '66 Impala with the 425 hp 427 cu. in. motor. It had very similar badges and was very often the first car out of the parking lot after work.


two2go,


While turbo charging would obviously help at altitude, it can also improve mileage at sealevel through improved efficiency. In a street machine that would be unlikely unless you were disciplined enough to keep your foot out of the gas, but I'm sure that would be easier in a 22k motor home.

Dave

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dieselclacker:
Yeah, right, maybe in a Corvette, but not pulling 21000 pounds... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Dieselclacker, The point is not that it can give us 25 MPG but that it's probably the only "BIG" block, 505HP engine that we can think of that can give anything 25MPG. If I can get 8 MPG (or more) using this motor - that'll be a good thing.

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Davel:
Those were the days. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Davel, I hope that those badges brought back some good memories - it did for me! Never owned one but I used to fix'em when I was a lot younger - before Vietnam. How bad can that be when someone asks you what kind of motor ya have it that motorhome and you tell em' it's a 427! Awesome!

Only one caveat - if the person is too young you're going to get a stupid look and a "What's that?"