Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > THE CHASSIS CLUB FORUMS > Workhorse and Chevrolet Chassis Motorhome Forum
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 12-05-2008, 12:08 PM   #1
Moderator Emeritus
 
DriVer's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Coastal Campers
Carolina Campers
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Conway, SC
Posts: 23,641
Blog Entries: 70
Chassis Evolution:

MaxxForceTM engine brings diesel choice to popular Workhorse platforms

LOUISVILLE, Ky. — (Dec. 2, 2008) -- New Workhorse choices in diesel power have brought more fuel efficiency and pulling power into what was once the exclusive province of gas motor homes. A front diesel engine option is now available for two proven and popular Class A motor home chassis — the Workhorse W20 and W22.

Called the W22D and W20D, the 22,000 and 20,500 lb. GVWR diesel-powered chassis will now give RV buyers more new choices for the platforms that have become known for their exceptional ride, handling and performance. The W20D will make its debut at the Workhorse Booth, No. 2018, in the East Hall at the National RV Trade Show in Louisville Dec. 2 to 4. Two major motor home manufacturers (Winnebago & Four Winds) will also display models built on the W20D.


2009 Four Winds Serrano

This evolution of the groundbreaking W20/W22 gas platforms marks the latest appearance of a Navistar MaxxForce engine on the motor home scene. This time it’s the MaxxForce™ 7, a 230 horsepower 6.4L V8 powerplant that puts out a hefty 620 lb.-ft. of torque to provide exceptional pulling power while achieving superior performance, reliability and fuel economy. Navistar also touts the MaxxForce 7 as a quiet diesel designed to greatly reduce the noise and vibration of the engine, providing an exceptional driving experience for the RV owner. Couple the MaxxForce 7 with the six-speed Allison transmission and the RV owner will experience a new level of driving ease.


2009 W Series D Platform

The turbo with charge-air cooler is tuned to reduce noise, improve fuel economy and make MaxxForce 7-powered vehicles responsive and easier to drive. The MaxxForce 7 will provide a True Diesel™ emissions solution for 2010 that uses only diesel fuel, not both diesel and urea as required by SCR emissions control. Instead, advanced EGR and proprietary “In-Cylinder’ technology is used to meet 2010 emissions standards without additional after-treatment or negative impact on fuel economy.

“In today’s economic environment, product differentiation becomes even more critical to manufacturers,” said Workhorse Vice President of Marketing and Product Planning Tony Monda. “Navistar’s MaxxForce™ engines provide a one-two punch — differentiation and fuel economy. Even though prices have dropped recently, consumers are very sensitive to the issue.”


2009 Itasca Sunstar

“The W20 and W22 are our most popular chassis. People love the maneuverability that comes with their 50-degree wheel cut along with the stable, comfortable ride these platforms provide. Now they also have the power and efficiency of the MaxxForce™ engine. This advancement brings diesel benefits well into the price range of the smaller gasoline coaches that are becoming more prominent.”


The Workhorse W20D's Powertrain - MaxxForce7 & Allison 1000MH 6 Speed - w/ 3.73 Rear

Both Workhorse and MaxxForce are affiliates of Navistar, “These new platforms typify the benefits of the great synergy we are developing within Navistar,” said Monda. “With this excellent engine now married to some of our most well-received chassis, the RV market is beginning to see some exciting new product developments.”

Service on the W20D and W22D chassis can be performed at more than 500 Workhorse Service Centers across the U.S. and Canada, while the MaxxForce engine will be serviced at RV participating International Truck and Engine Service dealers.


Navistar MaxxForce7 Twin-Turbo, 230HP - 620 lbs/ft Torque = "Clean Diesel" =

Workhorse Custom Chassis
Workhorse Custom Chassis is an affiliate of Navistar International Corporation (NYSE: NAV), a holding company whose subsidiaries and affiliates produce International® brand commercial and military trucks, MaxxForce™ brand diesel engines, IC brand school and commercial buses, and Workhorse® brand chassis for motor homes and step vans. It also is a private-label designer and manufacturer of diesel engines for the pickup truck, van and SUV markets. The company also provides truck and diesel engine parts and service. Another affiliate offers financing services. Additional information is available at www.Navistar.com/newsroom.

For additional information about Workhorse visit Workhorse.com.
__________________
03 Adventurer 38G, Workhorse W22
F&R Track Bars, Safety+ , Ultrapower, Taylor Extremes, SGII
TST 507, Blue Ox, SMI, Koni FSD, CrossFire
RV/MH Hall of Fame - Lifetime Member
DriVer is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 12-05-2008, 12:08 PM   #2
Moderator Emeritus
 
DriVer's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Coastal Campers
Carolina Campers
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Conway, SC
Posts: 23,641
Blog Entries: 70
Chassis Evolution:

MaxxForceTM engine brings diesel choice to popular Workhorse platforms

LOUISVILLE, Ky. — (Dec. 2, 2008) -- New Workhorse choices in diesel power have brought more fuel efficiency and pulling power into what was once the exclusive province of gas motor homes. A front diesel engine option is now available for two proven and popular Class A motor home chassis — the Workhorse W20 and W22.

Called the W22D and W20D, the 22,000 and 20,500 lb. GVWR diesel-powered chassis will now give RV buyers more new choices for the platforms that have become known for their exceptional ride, handling and performance. The W20D will make its debut at the Workhorse Booth, No. 2018, in the East Hall at the National RV Trade Show in Louisville Dec. 2 to 4. Two major motor home manufacturers (Winnebago & Four Winds) will also display models built on the W20D.


2009 Four Winds Serrano

This evolution of the groundbreaking W20/W22 gas platforms marks the latest appearance of a Navistar MaxxForce engine on the motor home scene. This time it’s the MaxxForce™ 7, a 230 horsepower 6.4L V8 powerplant that puts out a hefty 620 lb.-ft. of torque to provide exceptional pulling power while achieving superior performance, reliability and fuel economy. Navistar also touts the MaxxForce 7 as a quiet diesel designed to greatly reduce the noise and vibration of the engine, providing an exceptional driving experience for the RV owner. Couple the MaxxForce 7 with the six-speed Allison transmission and the RV owner will experience a new level of driving ease.


2009 W Series D Platform

The turbo with charge-air cooler is tuned to reduce noise, improve fuel economy and make MaxxForce 7-powered vehicles responsive and easier to drive. The MaxxForce 7 will provide a True Diesel™ emissions solution for 2010 that uses only diesel fuel, not both diesel and urea as required by SCR emissions control. Instead, advanced EGR and proprietary “In-Cylinder’ technology is used to meet 2010 emissions standards without additional after-treatment or negative impact on fuel economy.

“In today’s economic environment, product differentiation becomes even more critical to manufacturers,” said Workhorse Vice President of Marketing and Product Planning Tony Monda. “Navistar’s MaxxForce™ engines provide a one-two punch — differentiation and fuel economy. Even though prices have dropped recently, consumers are very sensitive to the issue.”


2009 Itasca Sunstar

“The W20 and W22 are our most popular chassis. People love the maneuverability that comes with their 50-degree wheel cut along with the stable, comfortable ride these platforms provide. Now they also have the power and efficiency of the MaxxForce™ engine. This advancement brings diesel benefits well into the price range of the smaller gasoline coaches that are becoming more prominent.”


The Workhorse W20D's Powertrain - MaxxForce7 & Allison 1000MH 6 Speed - w/ 3.73 Rear

Both Workhorse and MaxxForce are affiliates of Navistar, “These new platforms typify the benefits of the great synergy we are developing within Navistar,” said Monda. “With this excellent engine now married to some of our most well-received chassis, the RV market is beginning to see some exciting new product developments.”

Service on the W20D and W22D chassis can be performed at more than 500 Workhorse Service Centers across the U.S. and Canada, while the MaxxForce engine will be serviced at RV participating International Truck and Engine Service dealers.


Navistar MaxxForce7 Twin-Turbo, 230HP - 620 lbs/ft Torque = "Clean Diesel" =

Workhorse Custom Chassis
Workhorse Custom Chassis is an affiliate of Navistar International Corporation (NYSE: NAV), a holding company whose subsidiaries and affiliates produce International® brand commercial and military trucks, MaxxForce™ brand diesel engines, IC brand school and commercial buses, and Workhorse® brand chassis for motor homes and step vans. It also is a private-label designer and manufacturer of diesel engines for the pickup truck, van and SUV markets. The company also provides truck and diesel engine parts and service. Another affiliate offers financing services. Additional information is available at www.Navistar.com/newsroom.

For additional information about Workhorse visit Workhorse.com.
__________________
03 Adventurer 38G, Workhorse W22
F&R Track Bars, Safety+ , Ultrapower, Taylor Extremes, SGII
TST 507, Blue Ox, SMI, Koni FSD, CrossFire
RV/MH Hall of Fame - Lifetime Member
DriVer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 05:11 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
Fred and Bonnie's Avatar
 
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Pacific Northwest or SoCal
Posts: 3,035
Send a message via ICQ to Fred and Bonnie
Mike, these engine combos look real cool, except how is all that tubo and exhaust tubing fit under a low "Dog House"?

fred
__________________
Fred and Bonnie
2005 Dolphin LX 6375
Abby, Ruffles & Scarlett, "The Cats"
Fred and Bonnie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2008, 05:35 PM   #4
Moderator Emeritus
 
DriVer's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Coastal Campers
Carolina Campers
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Conway, SC
Posts: 23,641
Blog Entries: 70
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred and Bonnie:
Mike, these engine combos look real cool, except how is all that turbo and exhaust tubing fit under a low "Dog House"? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Fred, Well .... here's a picture of the doghouse on the Itasca Sunstar "Prototype."


Raised Doghouse Showing Increase In The Vertical Dimension

Now this is just a prototype doghouse however the dimensions may be close to what we are seeing now. Unfortunately all the charge air plumbing, the exhaust downpipe and turbos are on the top of the engine. In a truck this isn't a problem because the engine is way in front under a hood.

In a motorhome we practically sit on top of the the engine. So, "You asked for it!" and as a reporter it is my duty to provide you with the answer to your question as it relates to the RVIA Exposition.

Now here's some more engine for you:


Navistar MaxxForce7 Twin Turbo Diesel

Now the rep that I spoke with at Winnebago told me that the Sunstar at cruising speeds is very quiet. It does however present some engine sounds when accelerating or idling. Winnebago said that they may consider adding additional sound absorbing materials to the underside of the doghouse on production models.

Now if they are adding a blanket they may just need that little bit of extra room they purchased with the taller cover.

In my opinion, there isn't anyway around not having a taller doghouse.
__________________
03 Adventurer 38G, Workhorse W22
F&R Track Bars, Safety+ , Ultrapower, Taylor Extremes, SGII
TST 507, Blue Ox, SMI, Koni FSD, CrossFire
RV/MH Hall of Fame - Lifetime Member
DriVer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2008, 03:26 AM   #5
paz
Senior Member
 
paz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Full-timers - Home is where we park it.
Posts: 4,722
Any idea as to whether a W22D will be available to test drive at Tampa? I would love to see how 230 hp does in a motorhome that size. I've heard some people consider the 300 hp Cummins used in the 22,000 lb GVWR FRED to be marginal.
paz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2008, 03:48 AM   #6
Moderator Emeritus
 
DriVer's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Coastal Campers
Carolina Campers
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Conway, SC
Posts: 23,641
Blog Entries: 70
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by paz:
Any ides as to whether a W22D will be available to test drive at Tampa? I would love to see how 230 hp does in a motorhome that size. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>paz, Let's set out the goals for this vehicle. It has a clean diesel, it has a 6 speed transmission with 2 overdrives and it has a 3.73 rear end. The W20D shown in the pictures is on 19.5 inch tires. Obviously a W22D will most likely emerge on 22.5s.

So what we're talking here is fuel economy. Winnebago displayed a sign in their exhibit that stated 10 to 12 MPG. I'm sure they must have achieved those numbers in prototype testing so I'm happy with that and I'll give them the benefit of the doubt. The Serrano appears to have a very aerodynamic box as well so it should be able to follow closely along those economy lines.

Now that said, we are not going to experience the (in comparison) blistering off the line acceleration from a MaxxForce7 as we have seen from our 8.1s however I have been assured that the vehicle merges well into high speed traffic on the Interstate.

At this time there are some folks at Workhorse that said it would be nice to have a vehicle in Tampa to drive while others said that it may take a little while longer before a ride & drive demonstrator becomes available.

Damon has and continues to build a number of Avanti Motorhomes but those are on the W16D.

A heads up comparison between FRED and W2xD would certainly be interesting. As configured the FRED's ISB has more horsepower. The MaxxForce7 provides 620 lbs/ft and the Cummins ISB provide 600 lbs/ft of torque.

I think the basic need in diesels is torque and when the whole thing gets up and moving HP is not as critical once you're up to speed and cruising.

Come and look me up, I should be in the exhibit area in Tampa.
__________________
03 Adventurer 38G, Workhorse W22
F&R Track Bars, Safety+ , Ultrapower, Taylor Extremes, SGII
TST 507, Blue Ox, SMI, Koni FSD, CrossFire
RV/MH Hall of Fame - Lifetime Member
DriVer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2008, 05:20 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
MikeT's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Nor'easters Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Silver Springs, FL 34488
Posts: 466
Where did the 20 ft. lbs of torque disappear? 620 ft. lbs at the first post, now down to 600???? Wuz up??????
__________________
MikeT__and_Mo T
'05 Voyage, W20, SMI, '06 CR-V
Ginger, the cat --Daisy, the dog
MikeT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2008, 05:47 AM   #8
Senior Member
 
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Northwestern Montana
Posts: 3,512
I am not an engineer by any means, but looking at the engine with twin turbos on top of the engine, I would sure want some heavy heat insulation in the doghouse cover. Also would need lots of air flow around the engine top. Those exhaust turbine housings are hot! hot! hot! under power.

Dieselclacker
__________________
Dieselclacker
dieselclacker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2008, 06:10 AM   #9
Moderator Emeritus
 
DriVer's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Coastal Campers
Carolina Campers
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Conway, SC
Posts: 23,641
Blog Entries: 70
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MikeT:
Where did the 20 ft. lbs of torque disappear? 620 ft. lbs at the first post, now down to 600???? Wuz up?????? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>OK - So add Twenty! I've been writing a lot of articles lately and the numbers get blurred at times.

You didn't catch that "Four Winds" Avanti error either! Wake up!
__________________
03 Adventurer 38G, Workhorse W22
F&R Track Bars, Safety+ , Ultrapower, Taylor Extremes, SGII
TST 507, Blue Ox, SMI, Koni FSD, CrossFire
RV/MH Hall of Fame - Lifetime Member
DriVer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2008, 06:21 AM   #10
Moderator Emeritus
 
DriVer's Avatar
 
Winnebago Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Coastal Campers
Carolina Campers
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Conway, SC
Posts: 23,641
Blog Entries: 70
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dieselclacker:
Also would need lots of air flow around the engine top. Those exhaust turbine housings are hot! hot! hot! under power. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Dieselclacker, I did not hear the OEMs discuss that with me and there are 3 of them. Sound insulation and shedding heat are very important as you suggested.

When I saw the FRED on the floor it had what appears to be a Nomex or other type of sock over the outlet pipe from the turbo outlet to where it connects to the catalyst or AB system. On the W16 and W20 in the exhibits, I did not see extra measures to shield heat however in production that may change.
__________________
03 Adventurer 38G, Workhorse W22
F&R Track Bars, Safety+ , Ultrapower, Taylor Extremes, SGII
TST 507, Blue Ox, SMI, Koni FSD, CrossFire
RV/MH Hall of Fame - Lifetime Member
DriVer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 01:38 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wyandotte, Michigan
Posts: 232
My question is, how big is the fuel tank? Did Workhorse use their std. 75 gal. fuel tank or did they go bigger like a 90 gal. tank. 90 gal. would be much better due to the extended cruising range. Although there is alot to like about diesel engines, in most places #2 diesel cost $1.00 more than 87 octane gas. In the Detroit area I can buy gas for $1.50 less than diesel fuel using my Kroger discount. Kroger allows you (4) fill-ups per month! Bagman57
Bagman57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 02:39 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Bob (WA0MQE)'s Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: St. Cloud, FL
Posts: 1,528
Blog Entries: 1
I think this engine might work out in the UFO but I for one think adding back a large hump in the driver/passenger area is a step backwards. It took years to get these humps down to where they were not a problem. My wife is handicapped and when we bought our W22 she loved the low profile (about 2 inches) engine hump.

Also, I agree with the other poster regarding the fuel tank. Hopefully they will have a large fuel tank. In the west a large fuel tank is a must have. Although there are a lot of fuel stations out here not all RV friendly regarding getting in and out, especially when pulling a toad.
__________________
Bob 2006 Monaco Camelot 40PDQ
US Navy Carrier Battlegroup 1959/1965
Winters in Florida, Summers in Blue Ridge Mountains
Bob (WA0MQE) is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 04:17 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
-Gramps-'s Avatar
 
Monaco Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Crestview FLA
Posts: 1,428
Blog Entries: 7
I think the idea of any new chassis with the engine in the front (especially a diesel) is a step backwards. And worst of all with the way the market is reactive not proactive, the cost of fuel is not that much of a factor right now. Who's willing to sacrifice room, comfort and quiet for a few more mpg for 146,000 msrp bucks? Maybe people who like toy haulers but that is about it. I can understand that the price of fuel before the crash of 08 did drive this concept of smaller retro like coaches, but why not make a smaller chassis with the engine in the rear? Wait! There is one...the UFO 22. And maybe one day a UFO 16.
__________________
08 Holiday Rambler Vacationer XL 38PLT Workhorse R-26 UFO gas pusher,
2014 Cadillac SRX AWD, SMI Smart Box braking system.
https://myrandomviews.com/
-Gramps- is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-07-2008, 07:29 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Wyandotte, Michigan
Posts: 232
I still want someone on this forum that has a Workhorse connection to find out the size of the fuel tank. The Freightliner "FRED" has a 80 gal. tank and if Workhorse comes out with a 75 or 80 gal. tank, they are missing out on taking advantage of not having a 90 or 100 gal. tank. Lets face it, Freightliner got into the front end diesel business first and the Cummins 6.7L TD is a know commodity. It is basically a reworked 5.9 ISB that meets the current emission standards. I personally like Workhorse Custom Chassis, but would have to see features that make it more appealing than the "FRED"! Chuck/Bagman57.
Bagman57 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MaxxForceTM Engine Brings Diesel Choice to Popular Workhorse Platforms DriVer RV Industry Press 9 09-20-2009 01:53 PM
MaxxForce™ Engines Brings Diesel Choice to Workhorse Chassis Platforms DriVer Navistar MaxxForce Engine Forum 0 02-18-2009 04:45 PM
Workhorse Front Engine Diesel Full-Timers Workhorse and Chevrolet Chassis Motorhome Forum 24 08-18-2008 06:20 PM
Cat® C7 Engine To Power Workhorse R Series Diesel Chassis DriVer RV Industry Press 1 11-30-2006 02:33 AM
Workhorse Front Engine Diesel Jestme13 Workhorse and Chevrolet Chassis Motorhome Forum 38 08-08-2006 12:57 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:54 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.