Million dollar brake question

[Ron & Dee]

No, I don't have the money to pay for the answer

Why have some of the Workhorse chassis with the same exact brakes as mine, never failed

Thanks,

Ron

[Gregg]

That is an excellent question Ron,
I wish I had the answer !!
Allthough I do have a theroy,
I think in part it might have somethiong to do with driving habits,
I can only speak for myself, when driving I've always been easy in my brakes.
For example, going down mountain passes I don't ride the brakes to maintain speed, this would cause the brake temp to rise, instead I down shift and slow the coach down to maybe 5 mph slower that I want to go then release the brakes and let the coach accelerate to my target speed, then once again apply the brakes to slow down. This puts minimal heat into the brakes and allows them to cool while the coach speeds up again.
I can't tell you how many times I've been in the mountains and smelled burning brakes in front of me.
My .02

[bsinmich]

I wondered the same thing until this trip. We were just into our second day when I was driving in the Northern suburbs of Detroit and smelled burning brake and my pedal had very little play in it. I parked in a Church parking lot and went in for a visit of about an hour. (I had been the organist there for about 40 years) When I came back to the MH it had cooled down and I headed to the WH service center. The mechanic said the reason my pedal hadn't gone to the floor like many was because I flush my brake fluid and there was no moisture to boil. I continued my trip but felt the pedal getting a little higher again when I got the the CG here in PA. I did not go on the rest of my trip and spent a week here. Today I will begin my attempt to get back home and park this thing until the work can finally be done to make it safe to drive again. I have 31,000 miles when my brake problem happened. I guess sooner or later we will all experience it. Like Gregg, I am usually very easy on brakes.

[Ron & Dee]

I have always prided myself with my mountain driving skills, always down shift, use the brakes very little and only in sudden burst.

When we bought our first MH, a 1983 Georgia Boy Excaliber, a service tech told me when driving in the mountains to just relax, take a deep breath, down shift, go slow if not slower, and don't worry about the people behind you

But even at that I still had a brake failure.

We leave today on our month long vacation to the west with plenty of mountain driving ahead, and I have everything crossed and saying my prayers

Ron

[TAN]

I do the same as Gregg does. No brake problems yet, with 30,000 miles.

[George Z]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gregg That is an excellent question Ron, I wish I had the answer !! Allthough I do have a theroy, I think in part it might have somethiong to do with driving habits, I can only speak for myself, when driving I've always been easy in my brakes. For example, going down mountain passes I don't ride the brakes to maintain speed, this would cause the brake temp to rise,

Gregg, That theory has been thrown around for quite some time and used by WH on occasion and seems to hold no credence as my failure happened with less than 2000 miles on odometer, on fairly flat road, at slow speed, in stop and go traffic. I have read of many others problems, who all can't be inexperienced in driving larger rigs and not abusing the brakes.

George

[Clay L]

I think Bosch and Workhorse have also been confused and have had trouble figuring what is causing the problem.

The most common theory now seems to be that it's related to how much use the brakes get. Apparently the same calipers and pistons are in fairly wide use in other applications and the problem hasn't shown up much.

So far (5 1/2 years and 36,000 miles) I haven't had a problem and I stay in one place without moving for up to four months. I don't know if that fits the infrequent use profile or not.

[angelman]

Get to know your brakes and how they feel when working properly. If you have any doubt, Get off the hwy.When you come to a stop, if the vehicle doesn't roll after you release the brake pedal, pull over a.s.a.p. Let the culprit brake cool. After about a half hour start MH and put it in drive, If it rolls on idle your good to go.

Stop and go traffic is killer for these braking systems. I know. Ive had 3 situations so far. I still have all the original components except for the fluid. This is a manageable problem for the interim. I hate having to drive this way. We should be allowed to wear-out our brakes if we want to without getting stuck!

Dont cancel your plans, Just drive with extreme observance and attention to your use of the brakes. Good luck.

[Bob (WA0MQE)]

It was mentioned in the recall moisture could also be at least part of problem. If this is the case, maybe humidity and length of time sitting still may factor into the problem. I'm from Colorado where it's extremely dry and "Knock on Wood" I haven't had any brake issues as yet. 23,000 miles so far.

[Gregg]

Bob,
I'm in ABQ, very dry here also.
Interesting....

[oemtech]

Just because the humidity is low doesn't mean that you are in the clear. Get some test strips to make sure. I have some on order and will report back when I have a change to test.

[speed racer]

IMHO there is more than one reason for the problem and some are hard to address. Cracked rotors are caused by high heat no mater what the cause(drver abuse or stuck calipers). Stuck calipers are caused by none use (rusty pins/stuck pistons) and little or no preventive maint. On a MH maint. goes by time more than milage and they need more maint. than a normal vehickle.

[wa8yxm]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron & Dee No, I don't have the money to pay for the answer Why have some of the Workhorse chassis with the same exact brakes as mine, never failed Thanks, Ron

Now that is a very good question and the answer is very complex. To explain the issue, and I'm not sure I can, but I can try, you need to understand the problems. And there are two common problems.

THe first is a hose issue, this can happen to any car, truck or Motor home with HYDRAULIC brakes and in fact did happen to me... On my car

A brake hose is several layers, if the inner most layer fails in one particular manner it can act like a check valve, letting fluid into the caliper or cylinder but not letting it back out.. Simptom is overheating of the brakes, failure of the wheel destruction of the caliper and rotor.

As I said, this is 1: Rare, and 2: Can affect ANY vehicle with hydraulic brakes, Even a U-Haul Trailer.


The more common issue with Workhorse, or rather BOSCH is that they used a composite piston, cast cylinder (Caliper) but a composite piston. Turns out this piston, though rustproof (A good thing) can absorb moisture, and if it does this it will swell up and jam in the cylinder.. Same effect and sysmptoms as the hose-issue above.

Many motor homes the chassis sat out in the rain for six months or more before the house was bolted to the top. The piston got wet

And there are slight differences in the design and layout of the wheel well model to model and brand to brand, Some of them are more likely to splash water up onto the piston, some less.

There are many variables, But if the piston never gets a chance to absorb moisture And it should not, for one thing there is supposed to be a seal that prevents it) you won't have that problem.

Another issue is the coefficient of expansion of the pistion is different over the range of tempertures you can expect to see in a brake caliper.. Now here the phrase IIRC (If I Recall Correctly) applies.

As I recall the expert I spok with (Workhorse National Service Manager if you want to know his title) told me that at low temps the piston has a greater coefficent of expansion than the cylinder (That is it gets bigger faster as it gets hot) but at higher temps this is reversed.

So if you are the kind of driver who rides your brakes you are MORE likely to have a problem than someone who, like me, was trained on a stick shift and reserves his left foot for the clutch.

Of course, all this is speculation, it may just be the luck of the draw

[Tincup]

I have an '05 Bounder and have not had the brake problem. It has 20200 miles and 98% of it has been in hot dry climates that we boondock in for up to 10 months. However, every two - three weeks I take it in to dump, get fresh water, etc. it's about a 20 mile round trip. I think the periodic use I put on it, combined with the dry temps has prevented brake problems. Like others, I rely on the Grade Brake feature when descending grades. Personnaly, I think the Grade Brake is one of the best feaures of the Allison transmission. We have gone up and down the "Pahrump Hump" in both directions and I don't think I tapped the brake pedal more than a half a dozen times each trip. I also grease the zerk on that gizmo that is connected to the brake pedal, sorry for the technical term "gizmo" but I don't know what it's called:-)!

So my theory is, prudent use of the brake pedal, use the Grade Brake, and above all, keep your gizmo greased ;-).