Motorhome Mfg still use Workhorse?

bigdomino · 06-21-2011, 09:10 AM

Just wondering if they are still used? I know that GM does not make the 8.1 liter engine. What goes in now? Seems like all the gassers I see are on Fords.
Steve

edgray · 06-21-2011, 11:55 AM

You are correct in that only Ford makes a GAS powered MH chassis today, the F53.

Workhorse has no gas engine to power its chassis today. They are building the W-20 and W-22 chassis using the Maxxforce 7 DIESEL engine, therefore these chassis are called W-xxD.

Currently THOR is building their Serrano coaches on these platforms.

wazone3 · 06-23-2011, 11:17 AM

30+ years ago Dodge owned the class A gas engine business. They eventually walked away from it and GM took over. Now GM walks away from the class A gas engine business and Ford takes over. I really don't see anyone coming in to compete with Ford as it is somewhat a limited market, particularily with the growth of the diesel engine market, both pushers and pullers. What happens if Ford drops the V10 ? Existing smaller gas engines could handle a smaller class A, say in the 25-28 foot range, but the larger class A would be SOL.

DriVer · 06-23-2011, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wazone3

What happens if Ford drops the V10 ? Existing smaller gas engines could handle a smaller class A, say in the 25-28 foot range, but the larger class A would be SOL.

According to my contacts, Ford is not likely to drop the V10 any time soon. If they did it would be disastrous to a number of OEMs since a large part of their product line is positioned at the entry level and that's where gas does well.

This fall at our National Rally, Ford has signed up to come and present a seminar for us. This would be the 1st time that I have seen them attend an event other than the RVIA exposition.

alvinc · 06-23-2011, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edgray

Workhorse has no gas engine to power its chassis today. They are building the W-20 and W-22 chassis using the Maxxforce 7 DIESEL engine, therefore these chassis are called W-xxD.

Currently THOR is building their Serrano coaches on these platforms.

I find it interesting that the W-xxD does not show up on the Workhorse website. It does appear in a press release in 2009, but there are no specs or anything. Apparently they are not very proud of it.

DriVer · 06-23-2011, 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alvinc

I find it interesting that the W-xxD does not show up on the Workhorse website. It does appear in a press release in 2009, but there are no specs or anything. Apparently they are not very proud of it.

alvinc; I think you missed the boat on that one .....

230HP & 620 lb/ft Torque

Workhorse W20D (W22D looks the same with 22.5" tires)

For more information .... W20D Diesel Chassis

SteveLevin · 06-23-2011, 04:00 PM

I wonder why they don't build a W24D? Or is there just not that much demand for that chassis?

Steve

edgray · 06-23-2011, 04:39 PM

IMO, the W-24 chassis, with its 30,000 GCVWR would be underpowered with the Maxxforce 7, and I doubt if the larger Maxxforce motors would fit.

DriVer · 06-23-2011, 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveLevin

I wonder why they don't build a W24D? Or is there just not that much demand for that chassis?

Steve, It's quite simple actually. The upcharge for a W24 is about $6,000. To that add another few grand for the upcharge for the Maxxforce 7 diesel engine and what you will wind up with is a vehicle with a price point approaching a 28,000 GVW RDP with air suspension and air brakes. Getting a product to be a SKU is one thing but getting an OEM to buy it for one of their products is quite another. A gasoline powered W24 was a no brainier. Big block, big tranny, 24K GVW & 30K GCWR, 4 wheel Quadraulic brakes, a winner at every turn. Move that 24K GVWR into a front diesel application and all of a sudden you open up more options for people to look at.

It's what it's all about ... options ...

Now if we are not talking Workhorse, Vesta and Trip come in at 29,000 GVWR with the Maxxforce7 (front engine diesel) and they have air suspension and brakes. Both of these vehicles are built on a Roadmaster Chassis by Monaco RV a Navistar Company. Both Workhorse and Monaco have the same boss at this time, William Osborne, who takes the reins on July 1.

It is going to be interesting to say the very least ...

DriVer · 06-23-2011, 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edgray

IMO, the W-24 chassis, with its 30,000 GCVWR would be underpowered with the Maxxforce 7, and I doubt if the larger Maxxforce motors would fit.

Ed, No doubt at all. Fuggetaboutit!

max49 · 06-23-2011, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriVer

Steve, It's quite simple actually. The upcharge for a W24 is about $6,000. To that add another few grand for the upcharge for the Maxxforce 7 diesel engine ...

I'm assuming you mean the $6000 upcharge for the W-24 is over the price of the W-22. That makes sense but then you say , a few grand extra for the Maxxforce 7 diesel engine. If that's a few grand over the price of the same rig with the 8.1 gasser, I would "buy it now".
If they can fit a Powerstroke, Duramax or a Cummins in a little 3/4T PU for (how much extra is it) a few grand more??? than a gas engine, why can't someone build an affordable , or call it "entry level" if you want, MH with a comparable diesel engine that goes in these PU trucks. It just seems like it would be a great seller.
I don't know about the rest of the country but out here it seems there almost as many diesel PUs as there are gassers.

And how does this Maxxforce 7 engine compare to the Ford Chevy and Dodge diesel engines? More or less power; more or less money? I see these little PUs pulling giant 5th wheels just blowing by me when I'm climbing mtns

I just think WH could get "back in the game" if you could buy a Ford gasser Damon Daybreak or , say a Hurricane for $80,000 or you could get the same MH on a WH chassis with a diesel engine for $ _ _ _ _ _ ??? extra.
International is a very competetive company with trucks, they should be able to compete with Ford if they wanted to, I would think.
I know they 'pitched a fit' when Mack beat out their bid for a bunch of C DOT trucks. I hear they may be going to court.

DriVer · 06-23-2011, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by max49

I'm assuming you mean the $6000 upcharge for the W-24 is over the price of the W-22. That makes sense but then you say , a few grand extra for the Maxxforce 7 diesel engine. If that's a few grand over the price of the same rig with the 8.1 gasser, I would "buy it now".

Max, I might get that a few grand would be something along the order of $10K or so but I don't have those retail numbers.

Quote:

If they can fit a Powerstroke, Duramax or a Cummins in a little 3/4T PU for (how much extra is it) a few grand more??? than a gas engine, why can't someone build an affordable , or call it "entry level" if you want, MH with a comparable diesel engine that goes in these PU trucks. It just seems like it would be a great seller.

You might be looking for a Ventana LE, a Tiffin RED or a Journey Express. You might also want to look at Thor Astoria. There are a lot of these types of RVs out there.

Quote:

And how does this Maxxforce 7 engine compare to the Ford Chevy and Dodge diesel engines? More or less power; more or less money?

The Maxxforce7 will allow you to operate your motorhome without making you an active participant in your own emission control strategy.

Quote:

International is a very competetive company with trucks, they should be able to compete with Ford if they wanted to, I would think.

Yes and if they are true to the reasons why they got into the RV business .... Navistar isn't done yet.

max49 · 06-23-2011, 08:10 PM

Quote:

You might be looking for a Ventana LE, a Tiffin RED or a Journey Express. You might also want to look at Thor Astoria. There are a lot of these types of RVs out there.

I only paid about 65K for my MH, It was affordable for many of the average joes. I'd pay another 10K for a turbocharged diesel engine. I believe those MHs you mentioned are about double what I paid, if not more. WH is giving all the affordable MH business to Ford.
Maybe if Ford would quit making a gasser, we could find a campspot in a state or Nat. park easier. Oh nevermind, we still have all those TTs , 5ers, pop ups and tents to compete with.

SteveLevin · 06-23-2011, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DriVer

Steve, It's quite simple actually. The upcharge for a W24 is about $6,000. To that add another few grand for the upcharge for the Maxxforce 7 diesel engine and what you will wind up with is a vehicle with a price point approaching a 28,000 GVW RDP with air suspension and air brakes. Getting a product to be a SKU is one thing but getting an OEM to buy it for one of their products is quite another.

Ah, that makes sense. I haven't actually looked much at pricing for front engine motorhomes since I'm too poor to consider anything new

Steve