Mountain Driving Strategies and Braking Techniques ...

[DriVer]

In my opinion, derived from speaking with owners and a few service centers, a number of W-Series brake wipeouts, rotors cracked, etc., could be attributed to:

1. Operator misuse. (Mountain driving and riding of brakes)
2. Improper campaign repair.
3. Relay lever (Z-Bar) hang-up from inadequate lubrication.
4. Calipers or linkage hanging from corrosion from extended storage.
5. Pedal hanging from brake light switch, cruise control switch, or other.
6. Air in system.
7. Master cylinder or hydro-boost unit hanging. (only one case confirmed on a new unit)
8. Overloaded motorhome or towed unit with no auxiliary brakes.

W series brakes are very responsive with excellent braking resulting from minimal pedal force however they appear to be very sensitive to riding the brake pedal. Owners are typically advised to keep their foot "off" the brake while driving in mountains. This can cause "brake drag" and overheat the brake pads and rotors. Brake drag will cause a failure that is beyond the control of WCC and a warranty claim could be denied if the evidence points toward abuse.

See the complete context of this topic in the featured article at the top of this forum. I left "this" thread open for discussion and locked the featured article.

The bottom line is to know your machine, its limits and to implement techniques and strategy that will allow you to maintain optimum control of your motorhome without degrading the vehicle's systems.

[DriVer]

In my opinion, derived from speaking with owners and a few service centers, a number of W-Series brake wipeouts, rotors cracked, etc., could be attributed to:

1. Operator misuse. (Mountain driving and riding of brakes)
2. Improper campaign repair.
3. Relay lever (Z-Bar) hang-up from inadequate lubrication.
4. Calipers or linkage hanging from corrosion from extended storage.
5. Pedal hanging from brake light switch, cruise control switch, or other.
6. Air in system.
7. Master cylinder or hydro-boost unit hanging. (only one case confirmed on a new unit)
8. Overloaded motorhome or towed unit with no auxiliary brakes.

W series brakes are very responsive with excellent braking resulting from minimal pedal force however they appear to be very sensitive to riding the brake pedal. Owners are typically advised to keep their foot "off" the brake while driving in mountains. This can cause "brake drag" and overheat the brake pads and rotors. Brake drag will cause a failure that is beyond the control of WCC and a warranty claim could be denied if the evidence points toward abuse.

See the complete context of this topic in the featured article at the top of this forum. I left "this" thread open for discussion and locked the featured article.

The bottom line is to know your machine, its limits and to implement techniques and strategy that will allow you to maintain optimum control of your motorhome without degrading the vehicle's systems.

[Bob (WA0MQE)]

So, i.e., Workhorse is saying 7 out of 8 problems is operator/owner caused.

If this is the case why is it other vehicles, cars, trucks, other motorhome chassis manufacturers, etc. don't have the same issues?

No doubt some problems are caused by drivers, not picking on you Driver... but it seems like, it's never Workhorse's problem it's always the owners.

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bob (WA0MQE):
So, i.e., Workhorse is saying 7 out of 8 problems is operator/owner caused. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't know about that but I definitely see 2 user/owner/operator points. Riding the brake pedal and overloaded MH. These are direct operator causes. The other are problems that develop by the service center, inactivity, and possibly 3 mechanical anomalies.

I developed this topic for as a means to speak about how to extend the service life of the motorhome braking system.

Nobody is suggesting that any one is to be blamed. WCC said that they researched this. The data was no doubt obtained from the hundreds of cases that were presented to the service centers and the forensics become self evident showing one point of failure or another that display similar trends.

The data is presented and perhaps this will give us a heads up on what the issues are and how to improve our ownership experience. Knowledge is never a bad thing.

BTW if you come down Mount Washington with your foot on the brakes all the way you will wreck and possibly loose your vehicle off the side of the mountain. This will repetitively and consistently happen to any vehicle.

[Full-Timers]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bob (WA0MQE):If this is the case why is it other vehicles, cars, trucks, other motorhome chassis manufacturers, etc. don't have the same issues? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>This could be why.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Compared to the P model the W series brakes are very responsive with excellent braking resulting from minimal pedal force and are very sensitive to riding the brake pedal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Tenn.Vol.]

Driver, did these 8 ROOT CAUSES come out before or after the cure??
To REMOVE and LUBE the caliber pins TWICE a yr.?????? TENN.VOL.

THE DEVIL MADE ME DO IT!!!!!LOL

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tenn.Vol.:
To REMOVE and LUBE the caliber pins TWICE a yr.?????? TENN.VOL.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>Tenn.Vol, It's all good brother!

According to the 2007 Workhorse Gas Chassis RV Maintenance Schedule Program (WGCRVMSP) which will be posted here shortly, the service interval for all slides and pins is every 12,000/24/36 etc. mile interval.

***** Inspect/Lubricate brake components such as the slides, guides, pivots, slide pins, linings and linkage.

[max49]

What a way to avoid paying a warranty claim, just blame it on operator abuse.
I've never lubed any caliper slides, guides, pivots, slide pins, linings and linkage in my life except when I replaced the pads or shoes and I'm not sure I did then either.
But so far the only cracked rotors I've had were on my E-350 Minnie Winnie

[adj]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DriVer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tenn.Vol.:
To REMOVE and LUBE the caliber pins TWICE a yr.?????? TENN.VOL.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>Tenn.Vol, It's all good brother!

According to the 2007 Workhorse Gas Chassis RV Maintenance Schedule Program (WGCRVMSP) which will be posted here shortly, the service interval for all slides and pins is every 12,000/24/36 etc. mile interval.

***** Inspect/Lubricate brake components such as the slides, guides, pivots, slide pins, linings and linkage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Will the new maintenance guide have a IPB of the brakes and torque values?

[abarkl]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DriVer:
According to the 2007 Workhorse Gas Chassis RV Maintenance Schedule Program (WGCRVMSP) which will be posted here shortly, the service interval for all slides and pins is every 12,000/24/36 etc. mile interval.

***** Inspect/Lubricate brake components such as the slides, guides, pivots, slide pins, linings and linkage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Six years later for my W22 with numerous break failures and that's all they have to say!

[John-D]

I think I see three Operator/Owner issues there

Number 1: Obviously is the operator

Number 2: is clearly the service center, and since it is a "Campaign Repair" that means it was an authorized Workhorse center and their problem

#3 could be either, But if you have your lube jobs done at an authorized workhorse center... IT IS THEIR PROBLEM

#4 is an owner issue.. I have seen this on all types of vehicles and if you store for many months expect to do a brake job, including perhaps a new master cylinder

#5: is Workhorse's problem.. I just had my brake switch replaced

#6Air in the lines) should never happen, it indicates an improper brake repair job, See #2

#7: is again defective material or workmanship (Workhorse)

And #8 is the owner/operator's fault.

So it's 3 and a half.

I suspect #1 is, in fact #1 on the reason they fail list.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">1. Operator misuse. (Mountain driving and riding of brakes)
2. Improper campaign repair.
3. Relay lever (Z-Bar) hang-up from inadequate lubrication.
4. Calipers or linkage hanging from corrosion from extended storage.
5. Pedal hanging from brake light switch, cruise control switch, or other.
6. Air in system.
7. Master cylinder or hydro-boost unit hanging. (only one case confirmed on a new unit)
8. Overloaded motorhome or towed unit with no auxiliary brakes. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Tom N]

The W20/W22 utilizes floating calipers.

The W24/UFO uses non-floating calipers.

What does Workhorse say about maintenance on the W24/UFO Quadralic 4 piston non-floating calipers??

BTW, PA has annual vehicle inspection. All PA registered motorhomes have their brake system inspected once a year.

-Tom

[Bob (WA0MQE)]

Colorado used to have a annual vehicle inspection, but they discontinued it because they couldn't prove that it made any difference, and for the most part it only put money in the pockets of the Inspection Stations.

Which brings me to my question, how well does PA annually inspect vehicles, and even more important to what degree do they inspect their brakes?

It's not an easy thing to look at your brakes and see if they are hanging up or not.

[oemtech]

I think John-D is spot on. More times than not it is an owner/operator problem. RV's are used much differently than cars and trucks. They get heavy usage for short periods, no usage for long periods and questionable maintenance all the time.

Consider that I did the following before this summers long trip:
1) Oil/filter
2) tranny/filter
3) flush the brake system
4) replaced the coolant/pressure cap
5) fresh spark plugs
6) checked rear end, front wheel oil bath, PS, coach/house batteries, Trac Bar bolts, Steer Safe bolts, Toad base plates/tow bar bolts, calipers/rotors etc
7) Had HWH repair front jacks
8) Check all tire pressures. I do this before I hit road after any camping, along with the oil, tranny and coolent.