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max49 · 01-12-2009, 06:47 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DriVer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mahlon:
So such service events require the cluster to go back to Actia to be replaced & reprogrammed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Mahlon, Very true.... Actia is the only party that can spin up the mileage on the IP. Odometer mileage is very seriously protected by law. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

See how WH and Actia have us by the bolls?
It a very serious problem and it's not our fault! That's my opinion, but can anyone disagree?

If your speedometer cable broke on your '56 Chevy, you just get a new cable whenever you got around to it.
If we have to drive our MH's because of the defective odometer, Actia and WH should be responsible for the mileage.
And what happened to 'repace on a case by case basis? It should mean unless you smash it with a hammer, they have to replace it because it's the law that we have to have an odometer.

max49 · 01-12-2009, 06:57 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mahlon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by max49:
<snip>
Why don't they just tell the svc cntrs to replace them when they come instead of trying to make it harder for the people who have supported their company? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Because, if the cluster needs to be swapped, the WH service centers don't have the equipment to read/re-program the instrument clusters with the software & read/write such params as mileage. So such service events require the cluster to go back to Actia to be replaced & reprogrammed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I very well know this, I'm on my 3rd IP, So why do they play game and say it will be $600 when all they have to do is senfd it to Actia to be thrown away and they program a new one for you.

Capt Joe · 01-13-2009, 03:52 AM

Reading Max's post about them having us by the bolls reminds me of a "quote" I had heard that was credited to Donald Trump (don't know if it is his quote 'cause I haven't run it through Snopes but I do think it is appropriate in this situation) that says "If you owe the bank $100k, they have you by the b*lls. If you owe the bank $100,000,000, you have them by the b*lls".

This philosophy rings true to me in these Actia IP cases as well as with our brake problems with the W20 and W22 chassis'(and I've had BOTH problems).

Why is is that we are expected to fight our own little battles with the SUPPLIER of the products when we should be getting assistance from the ones who actually specified the products and bought them to be installed in the finished product. The IP supplier and the brake component supplier obviously have responsibility for the failures we have experienced but I also feel that others such as Winnebago (and others), Workhorse and even the dealer who sells the product really need to be involved in a big way to help put pressure on these suppliers to make it right to the consumer and produce reliable products so that we are able to enjoy our 'toys' without the constant worry of multiple failures.

In a prior life, I owned and operated a boat dealership and I can't count the number of times a customer would come in with problems related to 3rd party supplies parts...ranging from engines, trailers, pumps, steering, electrical, etc, etc and I felt a strong responsibility to help him by presenting his case to the manufacturer and then right on down the line. Lets face it, we are just little cogs in the wheel of commerce as individual purchasers of an RV but if our dealers and manufacturers would get involved, I think pressure could be brought to bear from the ones who control the purchases of the problematic components. It is much easier for them to dismiss our individual complaints but if the folks who control the purchase of many thousands of these components, maybe we would get some action.

Thanks for letting me vent...its been building for quite a while as I have had both the IP problem as well as brake problems. I was very lucky financially because my WH Service Center took care of the IP problem and my extended warranty took care of the brakes (except for the deductible, the freight and about another $100 that the warranty folks said was the amount charged over what they would pay for the caliper) but I still had to miss a trip and put up with all the coordination to make the appointments, deliver my MH to the garage, etc.

Anyway, off my Soap Box now but lets all get serious about making sure the ones at the top of the chain know about the problems we are repeatedly having with components in THEIR finished products. Matter of fact, when I was talking to Winnebago about another thing the other day, I happened to mention the brake lock up I had and was told they haven't gotten many reports of that at all and if they DID get a bunch of them, they WOULD take it up with Workhorse. Don't know if that was a 'company' response or what but I sure don't think it would hurt at all to make sure we do all we can do to get them involved.

Thanks for reading,

DriVer · 01-13-2009, 04:07 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by max49:
If we have to drive our MH's because of the defective odometer, Actia and WH should be responsible for the mileage. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Max, That system is pretty foolproof and even though the IP may not display the mileage it still will increment it correctly. The IP has to meet certain federal minimum requirements and one of the properties is accuracy and the ability to retain the mileage count.

The pixels on any LCD device can fail and sometimes they do. All that is required is replace the IP and all is well again. Calling Actia and getting them involved if an owner is out or warranty is a good option.

DriVer · 01-13-2009, 04:17 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by max49:
I very well know this, I'm on my 3rd IP, So why do they play game and say it will be $600 when all they have to do is send it to Actia to be thrown away and they program a new one for you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Max, We have a member with a failed Allison automatic transmission. In my opinion the Allison is 1000% more reliable than the IP. The owner is looking at a $3500.00 bill. Why? .. because warranties expire. That said, if WCC failed to replace the IP under warranty that would be a problem. I have yet to get an out of warranty reimbursement on any of the new vehicles that I have purchased over the years "except" for good will cases which are often made available to owners on a case by case basis.

I hope or would expect that the OP may have the same benefit of that gesture but we'll see.

DriVer · 01-13-2009, 04:21 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Capt Joe:
Thanks for reading, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Capt. Joe, Thanks for taking the time to prepare your post.

Joe Gilbert · 01-13-2009, 04:31 AM

If you followed my posts you know that Workhorse did recently replace my IP, at their cost. So I have no complaints however, what would any of you think if the IP failed in your Chev., Ford, or BMW and the dealer told you that your best option for service was to work with GM's, Ford's or BMW's supplier? I'm sure everyone would be outraged and never consider buying another of their products. This is exactly what is going to happen to Workhorse. They need to step up and own these problems before it destroys them.

max49 · 01-13-2009, 04:48 AM

Great post Capt Joe, I wish I could write like that.
Dealers could pressure the mfgrs to fix perpetual problems with their units and if that doesn't work they could order and promote less of that product.
Who knows? It's been reported that Fords' market share is increasing. I've read that many dealers have fewer WH chassis MHs. It does'nt appear that the UFO is going to take over the class A market.
Things like the Brake and IP issue could be costing WH much more than they seem to realize.
If WH and Actia are happy if they can "just ride out the warranty", replacing them several times in those 3 years, and then it's our problem, does any body feel this will benefit Workhorse in the long run? Especially when they continue to use the same components.
There are only so many Cl A owners. They need repeat customers.

dieselclacker · 01-13-2009, 05:04 AM

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Capt Joe:

Why is is that we are expected to fight our own little battles with the SUPPLIER of the products when we should be getting assistance from the ones who actually specified the products and bought them to be installed in the finished product. The IP supplier and the brake component supplier obviously have responsibility for the failures we have experienced but I also feel that others such as Winnebago (and others), Workhorse and even the dealer who sells the product really need to be involved in a big way to help put pressure on these suppliers to make it right to the consumer and produce reliable products so that we are able to enjoy our 'toys' without the constant worry of multiple failures.

Thanks for the post Joe, this is my contention on this situation also, and has been all along, as I have stated here before.
I feel the manufacturer of the chassis should take up any problems with inferior parts with the manufacturer of those inferior parts, and not with the end consumer, me. I did not purchase my Actia instrument cluster from the manufacturer, or the brakes on the motorhome from Bosch.
In my opinion, the Actia instrument cluster on the earlier Workhorse chassis is, and has been a problem child since its introduction. Using stop gap measures to stall owners off until the unit is out of warranty, and then dumping the problem on Actia is not the way to handle the problem.

Dieselclacker

Tom N · 01-13-2009, 05:10 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Joe Gilbert:
If you followed my posts you know that Workhorse did recently replace my IP, at their cost. So I have no complaints however, what would any of you think if the IP failed in your Chev., Ford, or BMW and the dealer told you that your best option for service was to work with GM's, Ford's or BMW's supplier? I'm sure everyone would be outraged and never consider buying another of their products. This is exactly what is going to happen to Workhorse. They need to step up and own these problems before it destroys them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you saying that Workhorse refused to SELL you an IP??

Has Actia refused to sell you an IP??

Have you purchased a car new and taken it in for repairs and expected the manufacturer to repair it under warranty, even though the warranty had been expired for 2+ years?? I would like to hear the service managers response if you have.

-Tom

max49 · 01-13-2009, 05:24 AM

That's interesting, I build roads, We are a paving contractor, but we don't make our own asphalt or concrete.
If our roads fall apart the customer calls us and we are responsible to fix it, one way or another. We would not be in business, in a year, if we told the customer, developer, the city , county or state, that we were hired by, to call the asphalt or concrete mfgr

DriVer · 01-13-2009, 05:33 AM

WCC is actually not using the "same" components but yes, Actia is still providing IPs however since 2007 these units have been redesigned. The new IPs have been improved and I am not at all 100% certain that we have seen failures here regarding the new IPs however I believe that we are seeing fewer reported problems so the condition is improving. Might the display fail in the new ones? I can't foretell that however I believe that we can say that they did make a change and I believe it's for the better.

Is there still a glitch? I believe that we're still seeing IP resets in the gas gauge but I think they have developed software that fixes that. I believe that the fix is being tested and evaluated on all the models with the digital IP. I can't speak for Workhorse but I think they are working through some of the issues that effect us.

I don't see WCC sitting on their hands and waiting for all of us to expire our warranties. A question that should be asked is, "Has Workhorse honored their warranty?" If so then I believe that as a company they have met their obligations.

DriVer · 01-13-2009, 05:36 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by max49:
If our roads fall apart the customer calls us and we are responsible to fix it, one way or another. We would not be in business, in a year, if we told the customer, developer, the city , county or state, that we were hired by, to call the asphalt or concrete mfgr </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Max, Even as you say you are responsible, if you look you will find that there is a limit as to what your company can sustain as warranty adjustments or they would go out of business if they were obligated to repeatedly fix items that are considered out of warranty.

dieselclacker · 01-13-2009, 05:38 AM

Tom, I have had parts on automobiles replaced after warranty has expired, at no cost. Last one to do that was on Suzuki Grand Vitara. Fuel pressure regulator, due to FAULTY design, and Throttle cable, again FAULTY design. Suzuki admitted the problem, and took care of it.
Why can't Workhorse take care of a FAULTY design of the Actia cluster?
I worked many years in my prior life for Mercedes Benz, and have on many, many, occasions been instructed to perform repairs, and install replacement parts on vehicles that were out of warranty. Not safety related recalls either. Chevrolet, I know used to do the same thing. I have replaced camshafts, for pre-mature failure in the early V-8 Mercedes engines that were well out of warranty, as well as faulty hydraulic valve lifters etc.
Honda had problems with head gasget, and cylinder head design when the first generation of the CVCC engine was put into service. I don't want to remember how many engine repairs I was authorized to repair or replace due to coolant leakage into the cylinders causing washdown and ultimate wear to cylinder and piston. Honda picked up the tab for these repairs, regardless of mileage.

Dieselclacker