Oil Analysys - 2nd not so good

[j griff]

Long Post:

Some of you will recall my post of last September "Trip Trivia, fuel & oil consumption and oil analysis"�. Many were particularly interested in the oil analysis as evidenced by a large number of follow on posts. I have just completed a Lube, Oil & Filter change and again had the oil analyzed by Blackstone.

Following is the test of their second report: Jack: We were hoping to find copper and iron improved in this sample, but instead those metals increased. Silicon may be part of the problem; it shows a problem with the air filter. Suggest checking out the entire air filtration system; it may be that the box isn't closed up tight, or there could be a kink or a tear in the filter. Wear really shouldn't be this high after just 3485 miles on the oil, and in such a young engine. It's probably not going to give you trouble on your trip, but the metals are something to watch. TBN + 2.5, still OK. Stay with short oil changes for now.

Latest Sample First Sample
Jul 3, 08 Sep 17, 07
MH Miles 16320 MH Miles 12385
Miles on Oil: 3485 5747
Oil Added: 0 2 qts
Aluminum: 6 6
Iron: 66 43
Copper: 122 110
Lead: 0 1
Molybdnum: 99 89
Silicon: 20 20

All other findings were well within established parameters. I am running Mobil 1, 5-30 synthetic. I changed oil short of their previous recommendations because of some upcoming trips (including GNR where I'm sure looking forward to meeting some of you.)
In view of Blackstone recommendation re filter, I had the filter changed today and it didn't appear too bad. I had it done since my fingers might not be able to wrestle with the catches – and the mechanic thinking he was doing me a favor, washed the old medium that covered the original equipment filter, dried and installed the new AC Delco filter with the medium in place. He said the medium had considerable dirt, bugs, etc., but not enough to be a problem in his opinion. Since I don't have time to fool with it before we head out for GNR I'll leave it on and remove it when we return home. Mechanic and service manager both said MAF looked good and they could see no other problem with air filtration system. I drove about 20 miles after the service and it runs just fine – as usual.
Any thoughts about this engine and what I should be doing ??

[j griff]

Long Post:

Some of you will recall my post of last September "Trip Trivia, fuel & oil consumption and oil analysis"�. Many were particularly interested in the oil analysis as evidenced by a large number of follow on posts. I have just completed a Lube, Oil & Filter change and again had the oil analyzed by Blackstone.

Following is the test of their second report: Jack: We were hoping to find copper and iron improved in this sample, but instead those metals increased. Silicon may be part of the problem; it shows a problem with the air filter. Suggest checking out the entire air filtration system; it may be that the box isn't closed up tight, or there could be a kink or a tear in the filter. Wear really shouldn't be this high after just 3485 miles on the oil, and in such a young engine. It's probably not going to give you trouble on your trip, but the metals are something to watch. TBN + 2.5, still OK. Stay with short oil changes for now.

Latest Sample First Sample
Jul 3, 08 Sep 17, 07
MH Miles 16320 MH Miles 12385
Miles on Oil: 3485 5747
Oil Added: 0 2 qts
Aluminum: 6 6
Iron: 66 43
Copper: 122 110
Lead: 0 1
Molybdnum: 99 89
Silicon: 20 20

All other findings were well within established parameters. I am running Mobil 1, 5-30 synthetic. I changed oil short of their previous recommendations because of some upcoming trips (including GNR where I'm sure looking forward to meeting some of you.)
In view of Blackstone recommendation re filter, I had the filter changed today and it didn't appear too bad. I had it done since my fingers might not be able to wrestle with the catches – and the mechanic thinking he was doing me a favor, washed the old medium that covered the original equipment filter, dried and installed the new AC Delco filter with the medium in place. He said the medium had considerable dirt, bugs, etc., but not enough to be a problem in his opinion. Since I don't have time to fool with it before we head out for GNR I'll leave it on and remove it when we return home. Mechanic and service manager both said MAF looked good and they could see no other problem with air filtration system. I drove about 20 miles after the service and it runs just fine – as usual.
Any thoughts about this engine and what I should be doing ??

[Fred and Bonnie]

Jack, I am curious, why do you want to remove the foam filter medium?

Fred

[j griff]

Fred,
The AC Delco Filter comes without it - apparently intended to be used without the medium. I'll let some of the much more knowledgeable folks who post here give their thoughts on that.

[Full-Timers]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by j griff:
Long Post:

Any thoughts about this engine and what I should be doing ?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Forget about Blackstone and enjoy your motorhome.

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Full-Timers:
Forget about Blackstone and enjoy your motorhome. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Full Timers, I know what your you are intending and to a degree you're right however if j griff can take steps now to control a situation that appears to be developing he may be able to enjoy his motorhome just a little bit longer.

J griff come and see me and I'll take a look at your air box for you. Perhaps a 2nd opinion might help. I'm sure there won't be any shortage of opinions here as well come Monday evening at 6:00pm in Seminar D there should be over 120 iRV2 members.

See you st the party!

[j griff]

Full-timers - you are probably right, however I spent 42 years in the Air Force with oil analysis a constant in saving hundreds of thousands (or more) dollars in not changing aircraft engines - or changing - as the case might be. So I do tend to err on the cautious side.
Driver - thanks - I will be glad to take you up on your offer to have a look - and as I said before I am really looking forward to meeting you and others who I've come to know only by their log on names on this forum. Thanks again and will see you Monday, if not before. We have an appointment at HWH Friday morning and will be at GNR later that day.

[Joe Gilbert]

I have also used Blackstone for oil analysis and my first two samples also showed high silicon 79 & 38 ppm). After replacing my air intake with my version of a "cold air intake", using an S&B filter, the silicon readings are now in the 10 to 13PPM rangs.

May latest sample showed copper at 121. This seems to be about where the 8.1L engine runs.

[Full-Timers]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I do tend to err on the cautious side </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Blackstone results for the 8.1L seem to always come out high in metals, hence my comment above. As far as your comment "I do tend to err on the cautious side"�, if you stick to Workhorses recommended oil change interval, that should do it.

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Joe Gilbert:
..., the silicon readings are now in the 10 to 13PPM ranges. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I have an S&B filter and I recently serviced the filter for the first time and as of my last report I show 12 ppm on silicon.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">My latest sample showed copper at 121. This seems to be about where the 8.1L engine runs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I am only showing copper at 17. Please verify that number again.

[Joe Gilbert]

The copper levels on my 8.1L have been as follows.

128ppm
121ppm
116ppm
110ppm

Most of the readings shared on this forum have been high and in this area.

[Full-Timers]

Something I don't understand????
What does the air filter have to do with silicon in the oil?

[Avalondanes]

Sillica is in sand and dirt and is ingested to the combustion chamber from the air in the air/fuel mixture, contaminating the oil. That means that the air filter is dirty and needs to be changed or there are leaks in the induction tube/air box.

Richard

[j griff]

Joe Gilbert,
Our copper readings are very similar - mine at 110 and 122. My silicon was 20 on both samples. Blackstone shows universal average for copper on the 8.1 engine to be 8, so ours do seem quite high.
For now I'll change oil at about the 3000 mile mark and go from there.