Community Forums

Steve N Sal · 03-19-2010, 12:20 PM

I'm not to good at searching these threads to see if this has been discussed but is there any reason why the brakes on the W24 chassis cannot be used on the W22? I've watched alot of truck and car rebuild shows and it seems like not to much rocket science to be able to put anyones brakes on any chassis. I realize these are cars and small trucks but with todays technology you would think that something like this could be done. I can't see where there could be that much of a difference in the spindle sizes or whatever it would take to make it work. Now I'm NO mechanic by any means but it sure seems like there should be a fix out there. It sure would give people a piece of mind when driving.

edgray · 03-19-2010, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve N Sal

I'm not to good at searching these threads to see if this has been discussed but is there any reason why the brakes on the W24 chassis cannot be used on the W22?

See HERE: http://www.irv2.com/forums/f22/quad-...per-64519.html
ED

Steve N Sal · 03-19-2010, 04:13 PM

Now in a quick response to this why wouldn't they have used the same brake design for both chassis? Only makes sense to me but what do I know.
Secondly if I might ask, is there not another brake company that would make replacement brakes for the W22 chassis. The comment in the post I read about WH replacing the calipers for everyone for free sounds pretty far fetched and from their recall letters it doesn't sound like to many owners will see that.

edgray · 03-19-2010, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve N Sal

Now in a quick response to this why wouldn't they have used the same brake design for both chassis? Only makes sense to me but what do I know.
Secondly if I might ask, is there not another brake company that would make replacement brakes for the W22 chassis. The comment in the post I read about WH replacing the calipers for everyone for free sounds pretty far fetched and from their recall letters it doesn't sound like to many owners will see that.

As with EVERYTHNG, it is all about the COST. The larger AM brakes used to stop the 30,000 GCVWR of the W24, are bound tobe more expensive. The engineers at Bosch and WCC determined the Bosch calipers/rotors were sufficient for the 26,000 GCVWR of the w-20/w-22 chassis, and the lower cost was a factor in a highly competetive business, IMO.

There is nothing "far fetched" about the recall...except for how long it is taking to get started. What did you read in the Interim Notice that led you to your conclusion?

Steve N Sal · 03-19-2010, 07:15 PM

What I was basing my comment on was a comment by Brazel that in the interum of WH coming out with recall calipers and replacing them to every W22 owner. In reading the letter I rec'd from WH I don't see where that will happen as they are treating each case on an individual basis as it seems and deeming the problem with how the brakes may have been abused and just normal wear and tear. How they could ever determine that is beyond me. Every driver has there own characteristics behind the wheel, some are white knuckled, some drive with the foot on the brake pedal, some drive as though they have driven for millions of miles. A problem is a problem and to be fair eveyone should be taken care of on an equal basis. As I've said before I just hope they come out with a solution to this very soon to aleviate the fear of driving these rigs.

DriVer · 03-19-2010, 08:58 PM

I don't understand what you mean by...
.

Quote:

" In reading the letter I rec'd from WH I don't see where that will happen .."

bsinmich · 03-20-2010, 06:27 AM

Maybe he is just seeing that nothing has happened so far and we still don't know any specific time frame for the program to get started. I am planning on taking my MH for a 15 mile trip this summer. Whooppee!!!

Steve N Sal · 03-20-2010, 06:47 AM

In the second letter I rec'd. it reads.

If you have previously replaced a brake caliper on a motor home chassis involved in the this recall, you MAY be eligible for reimbursement on certain repairs (and the couple sitting accross from our site have already put in $3300.00 out their pocket) made between November 16,2007 and June 15, 2009. Please contact your local Workhorse service center or Workhorse Custom Chassis directly.

There are numerous other causes for caliper failures such as insufficient maintenance, riding the brakes, or overuse of the brakes on long downgrades. Workhorse WILL NOT reimburse owners for these type of failures or resulting damage.

This letter was sent Dec 09 and I'm sure everyone else rec'd the same letter.

In a previous paragraph it also reads service centers will perform the remedy free of charge. The remedy will not routinely include the installation of new brake linings or rotors or any other part that would be considered maintenance. However, in the event that a vehicle has experienced the condition resulting in overheating and damage to the linings, rotors, or other componencts, they will also be replaced free of charge.

Now how are they going to determine WHAT caused the problem on a particular motorhome? Mine for instance had a problem with the original owner and I have documentation from the servicing garage stating the brake fluid being of a jelly consistency and with inspection observed cracked rotors which the owner has declined to have turned. I've asked the question before and have never rec'd an answer, How do you turn cracked rotors?

Hey, I'm not trying to create a big rhubarb here just being a little concerned for everyone. It just seems that with what WH has issued in these recall letters they are leaving themselves alot of wiggle room to possibly bypass some people. Again I have not had any further problem with this chassis and I hope I don't but I do feel bad for the rest that have. I just hope they step up to the plate and cure this that's all.

TandW · 03-20-2010, 08:09 AM

Cracked rotors. Some are obviously cracked and are beyond use. Others that are crazed, but do not have cracks that are more linear or appear to have obvious fissures, are often turned and put back in service. Good luck!!

DriVer · 03-20-2010, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsinmich

I am planning on taking my MH for a 15 mile trip this summer. Whooppee!!!

Bill, I don't want to be a buzz kill but after I got my brakes done about 20 moths ago I didn't make it 15 miles before my rear calipers began smoking. What I failed to do at the time was replace the calipers like it was recommended that I should do.

I need to be on the road that's first and foremost. Once the recall launches I'll get the same 4 point brake resolution as everyone else will get. What needs to happen is that owners need to evaluate the condition and over health of all the wear & tear items, get the recall components and refurbish all the other brake components that should be renewed at the time of the recall is accomplished. Whether you do this now or later is up to you. Doing so now will enable you and when it comes time to do the recall you can rule out having to change or replace the W&T items at that time.

Starting with all new brake components from day one "will" offer owners "peace of mind" for the long term. One will need to be aware of the new maintenance requirement and to follow those recommendations for the expected long term health of the brake system. It is my wish for everyone to wear out their brake pads down to the backplates without any further seizures.

Going forward if the pistons are pushed back into the bores some 3 to 4 years from now, will we all be back to the same boat as we are now? I can't forecast that but that's what happened to me with the old calipers. I never expected that once they were shoved in they would seize in the bores on their way back out.

Right now the timeline for this to begin happening is beyond this writer's ability to forecast. I am concerned about the recent submission from inspectorrudy about what was said in regard to Bosch caliper production. If true this may extend the start date beyond the spring/summer timeline that was previously forecasted.

To deal with this issue if folks want to use their motorhomes over the typical 2010 RV/Camping Season some folks are going to have to make 1 of 3 decisions. Get the situation immediately under control, sit home and watch TV or damn the torpedoes - full speed ahead!

DriVer · 03-20-2010, 08:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve N Sal

Now how are they going to determine WHAT caused the problem on a particular motorhome? Mine for instance had a problem with the original owner and I have documentation from the servicing garage stating the brake fluid being of a jelly consistency and with inspection observed cracked rotors which the owner has declined to have turned. I've asked the question before and have never rec'd an answer, How do you turn cracked rotors?

In determining what calipers are immediately eligible for owner reimbursement, that is all detailed in the Interim Repair Procedure posted here. That data was determined by NHTSA and is the baseline that Workhorse refers to in order to get reimbursed from Bosch, if that's how all of that works. For example; if there were a bad refrigerator in a Pace Arrow one would not expect Fleetwood to eat the refrigerator.

You obviously can not turn cracked through rotors and IF the original owner chose not to replace the rotors the dealer is just as much at fault as the 1st owner is. I would not in good conscious put a vehicle in service with a cracked rotor. Small surface heat cracks excluded. Rotors with small stress cracks can be machined.

The jelly in the master cylinder is totally normal and is innocuous. It is a preservative that was used on the brake parts and isn't going to hurt anything. When one flushes the brake system, the preservative is removed when pumping out or vacuuming the brake fluid from the Hydro-Max.

Quote:

It just seems that with what WH has issued in these recall letters they are leaving themselves a lot of wiggle room to possibly bypass some people.

Just so that you know, there will be no one left in the dust as by-passed once the campaign launches.

Steve N Sal · 03-20-2010, 01:45 PM

Driver, I appreciate all your input. Heck, I wouldn't have even had this chassis registered with WH if it hadn't been for you being I'm the second owner. I have tried to inspect the rotors myself. The fronts appear to be fine and rears, well I guess I can't look at those unless I pull the wheels off. I've inspected the brake fluid in the master cylinder and even after a 1 1-/2 years since it was change is still clear. I will still flush the system when I get to my brother-in-laws in Indiana in April.
I see now another thread has started in respect to the caliper situation as far as tooling not even in the works yet. NICE!! If BOSCH doesn't think they're responsible just who do they think is??? They mfg. the item not WH. I think this whole thing is going to be a real tug of war before anything is resolved.
All I can say is that I'm not sitting home on my hands, I bought this unit to use it and if something (GOD FORBID) does happen when we're on the road someone will be held accountable.
I may have asked this question but is there another mfg of caliper that will fit this chassis? I just want it for back up and if I have to go it on my own that's what will happen.
By the way I mentioned the people with there rig across from me and their $3300.00 fix. Fix my A$$ as on their way down here to Florida this year the same problem reoccured. Can you beat that????

DriVer · 03-20-2010, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve N Sal

By the way I mentioned the people with there rig across from me and their $3300.00 fix. Fix my A$$ as on their way down here to Florida this year the same problem reoccurred. Can you beat that????

It not all that uncommon to see this type of cost for a complete 4 wheel brake job on one of these rigs. Now that said I have assisted folks in getting better pricing by helping them shop around for a better price quote. Not all service establishments are alike, some will actually be priced less than others.

It is however all together likely in the case of the gentleman across from you if he were towed and became a captive audience and the price he got was what he had to pay. That's too bad.

It may happen that those folks maybe eligible for some reimbursement/relief if the work were done at an Authorized WSC. They may have to pursue that if they can.