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Steady Eddie · 01-30-2008, 02:06 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by T&W:
Unless a timer delay is incorporated after proving pressure this system is useless, as that portion of the running gear that is farthest from said pressure switch is still not positively lubricated. Oil of proper multi-vis rating is your best protection and is endorsed by the engine manufacturer. Good luck!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Chief--
I certainly respect your opinion. The Automobile Mfgs. generally tap into the Main Oil Galley to measure oil pressure. On those rigs that have a Minimum Oil Pressure Warning Light, the SAE usually specs a 5 PSI point at which the light comes on. The prevailing thought is that engine bearing damage will be done at the 5 PSI oil pressure point and below. The Hyster System is reverse logic...abstract.

dieselclacker · 01-30-2008, 02:07 PM

Why not skip all the pressure switches etc., and just put a dash mounted toggle switch to break the ignition circuit until you are ready for the engine to fire. Then you can grind on the starter as long as you wish.

A true pre-lube system on huge industrial engines does not turn the engine over to pre-lube but rather has a seperate pump and tank to pressure the engine before moving the crank.
Got room in your Workhorse for one of these systems Eddie?

Dieselclacker

Steady Eddie · 01-30-2008, 02:17 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dieselclacker:
Why not skip all the pressure switches etc., and just put a dash mounted toggle switch to break the ignition circuit until you are ready for the engine to fire. Then you can grind on the starter as long as you wish.

DC--
My Father-in-Law has just such a system on his twin 454 Uniflight Fishing Boat. He presses a button to turn the engine(s) over and then engages a switch to power up the ignition...

A true pre-lube system on huge industrial engines does not turn the engine over to pre-lube but rather has a seperate pump and tank to pressure the engine before moving the crank.

...Parts left out cost nothing and create no maintenence problems later on...

Got room in your Workhorse for one of these systems Eddie?

...Yes, everyone does, but the individual pump and oil storage tank are BIG bucks...

Dieselclacker </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

knebrdr · 01-30-2008, 03:09 PM

S. Eddie,
If you are this worried about oil pressure before start up install an Accusump with either a manual or electric shut off valve. Release the pressurized oil stored in the Accusump and then start the engine. This way there is no increase in wear on the starter or ring gear which ocurs with excessive crank times (establishing oil pressure).
Randy

Steady Eddie · 01-30-2008, 04:26 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by knebrdr:
S. Eddie,
If you are this worried about oil pressure before start up install an Accusump with either a manual or electric shut off valve. Release the pressurized oil stored in the Accusump and then start the engine. This way there is no increase in wear on the starter or ring gear which ocurs with excessive crank times (establishing oil pressure).
Randy </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Randy--
I went out and looked at the Accusump. It *IS* a dandy..but still over or right at $500...you'd want the Marine/RV Model at $375 and the electric sol. switch and all the fittings and the mount for the unit.

There are no excessive crank times as the OE Vortec BB oil pump is a positive displacement pump, it goes full bore from the first complete spin. I would guess that 5 PSI positive main oil galley oil pressure could be seen within a very few revolutions, like 3 or 4 revs, maybe 5...

Full-Timers · 01-30-2008, 05:01 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Steady Eddie:
I have been looking at Pre-luber Systems in the interest of preventing dry starts and having the engine last a very long time. But the price--

--really backed me off. But then I remembered "fork trucks".... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>With regular maintenance and no add ons, your engine WILL last a very long time. Longer than you will most likely keep the motorhome.

Steady Eddie · 01-30-2008, 06:41 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">With regular maintenance and no add ons, your engine WILL last a very long time. Longer than you will most likely keep the motorhome. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I agree, esp. if I were the Original Owner and knew of its' former care. Way I see it, when a person buys a used rig, from out-of-state, off a Lot, and has no contact with the previous Owner, you should do what you can to "hedge your bet". The expectation is to never sell or trade this rig. My job is to make it outlast me. Things have been done towards that goal. And for the cost of one oil pressure sender and a handful of fittings, plus a bit of wire and wire ends, there can be taken another step towards that above-mentioned goal...I think it'll work...

hamguy · 01-31-2008, 06:35 AM

I can not see a situation whereby all the oil would drain from lube necessary surfaces. There will always be a few mono-layers of residual oil. That will suffice until oil is flowing to remove heat and provide friction reduction to a greater degree.

jmho

M&EM · 01-31-2008, 08:29 AM

Haven't done an engine rebuild in some time now.
But I do recall always seeing a fair amount of oil on a bearing insert after caps were removed. Never saw a dry one.

Marty

FrontRangeRVer · 01-31-2008, 09:17 AM

Use Mobil 1 10-30 Eddie....you'll be fine.

exrench · 01-31-2008, 05:45 PM

I worry more about cylinder walls and cam lobes than bearings.The above are much more likely to drain dry and are much more heavily loaded than crank or camshaft bearings.I can't feature them getting much oil until the engine is up to speed.Cranking speed would be a dry experience!

hamguy · 02-01-2008, 06:03 AM

Get a piece of metal. Heat it to about 400 deg F. Put it in a can of oil to cool it down a bit and hang it up to dry for 7 days. At the end of a week, check the metal. It will still have oil ar at least an oil film on it!

Steady Eddie · 02-01-2008, 08:46 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hamguy:
Get a piece of metal. Heat it to about 400 deg F. Put it in a can of oil to cool it down a bit and hang it up to dry for 7 days. At the end of a week, check the metal. It will still have oil or at least an oil film on it! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
hamguy---
Thank you for the post...

...your post has me wondering how a "cold, dry start" is defined. (?) I have certainly seen a bunch of SBCs opened up and seen oil all over everything. And, using that example, how can they sell commercial pre-lubers?
What part of the engine next morning is dry, devoid of lube? I got an e-mail from an
Anon. Person who suggested that the Hyster Method of not energizing the ignition (if it worked at all) would be counter-productive because all the time the Vortec was cranking to gain that 5 PSI before fire-up--at the same time the injectors are spraying fresh gasoline into the cylinders WASHING down the cylinders and ring lands. Which is exactly a situation best avoided...

Full-Timers · 02-01-2008, 02:48 PM

Even if you were not the original owner and the previous owner did not take good care of the engine and caused some damage, a pre oiler will not reverse the damage or prevent more damage due to the abuse. I read an article where they took a New Your taxi and rebuilt the motor then ran it with synthetic oil. After 100,000 miles they could still see the honing marks on the cylinder walls. My point? Follow the maintenance schedule and run synthetic oil and you will be fine.