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06-05-2018, 08:14 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 1,288
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Reducing body roll on W22
OK, so here goes an idea I've had for a long time, so I planning to do it. One of the things that causes body roll is the fact that the spring on the inside of the corner lifts the coach, probably more than the outside spring collapses. That being the case, I'm looking at installing a reversing or counter spring that engages right at the normal ride height. This will prevent the inside spring from lifting the coach, causing it to lean. For ease of design, I will probably go with a Timbren spring and have it land on the inside of the C-channel of the frame. Timbren as some long narrow spring that may fit inside the rail fairly well.
This idea is not new, its something I thought of back in high school. In college I had an MGB that had leather straps that limited the axle travel. There is a somewhat recent patent on the idea, but I'm not sure how it could be valid, when something similar was done before. Of course since I'm building this myself, the patent is irrelevant.
__________________
2004 AllegroBay 34XB Nov 2017 Banks, Front & Rear Trac bars, Konis
Sold:'83 Revcon Prince 31' FWD GM Performance 502 w/Edelbrock MPFI, Thorley Tri-Ys & Magnaflows, 4L85E 4 spd. Tested to exceed 100 mph.
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06-05-2018, 11:37 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Clovis, CA, USA
Posts: 13,103
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Have you replaced the shocks yet? My body roll was significantly reduced with new shocks.
I'm talking about the body roll on surface streets when you turn a corner while going over a drainage dip.
__________________
2004 Monaco La Palma 36DBD, W22, 8.1, 7.1 MPG
2000 LEXUS RX300 FWD 22MPG 4020 LBS
Criticism is easier than Craftsmanship
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06-06-2018, 11:37 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 1,288
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The OEM Monroes were replaced with Bilstiens under a recall when the coach was a little over a year old. They also replaced the front jounce stops with longer ones that rest on the axle. I know that Koni FSDs have a much greater rebound damping, which should help, but I was thinking more dramatic, but less expensive and possibly more effective than an anti-sway bar.
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2004 AllegroBay 34XB Nov 2017 Banks, Front & Rear Trac bars, Konis
Sold:'83 Revcon Prince 31' FWD GM Performance 502 w/Edelbrock MPFI, Thorley Tri-Ys & Magnaflows, 4L85E 4 spd. Tested to exceed 100 mph.
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06-06-2018, 04:02 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Southern NM
Posts: 2,514
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveinet
The OEM Monroes were replaced with Bilstiens under a recall when the coach was a little over a year old. They also replaced the front jounce stops with longer ones that rest on the axle. I know that Koni FSDs have a much greater rebound damping, which should help, but I was thinking more dramatic, but less expensive and possibly more effective than an anti-sway bar.
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You must have a very different W22 than me, of course I am not experienced in driving fast cars, but I can't complain about my 21,000 lb W22 turning corners, with bilstein shocks.
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2005 Tiffin Allegro Bay 37DB
W22 Workhorse Chassis 8.1 Flat Towing a 82 Jeep CJ7
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06-06-2018, 05:41 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 1,288
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At SLOW speeds, such as pulling out of driveways, the amount it rocks back and forth is crazy. On the road, you feel it move even when cars pass, let alone trucks. Even the smallest amount of wind blows it around. I'm hoping to add stability under all conditions, not just cornering.
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2004 AllegroBay 34XB Nov 2017 Banks, Front & Rear Trac bars, Konis
Sold:'83 Revcon Prince 31' FWD GM Performance 502 w/Edelbrock MPFI, Thorley Tri-Ys & Magnaflows, 4L85E 4 spd. Tested to exceed 100 mph.
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06-06-2018, 05:48 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,363
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sway bars removed all the body roll for me. Do you have a trac bar on the coach?
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06-07-2018, 06:36 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 1,288
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Not yet. It is on the list. Originally I was planning on sway bars, but I think I can do this for substantially less money. In theory, it should ride better than with sway bars, as it does not effect the compression, only rebound and only would engage above normal ride height.
The trick is going to be figuring out the correct spring density. Timbren publishes their compression curves. Sumo Springs are cheaper, but I've not found any graphs on their website.
__________________
2004 AllegroBay 34XB Nov 2017 Banks, Front & Rear Trac bars, Konis
Sold:'83 Revcon Prince 31' FWD GM Performance 502 w/Edelbrock MPFI, Thorley Tri-Ys & Magnaflows, 4L85E 4 spd. Tested to exceed 100 mph.
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06-12-2018, 01:56 PM
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#8
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Member
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tehachapi, CA
Posts: 30
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I bought a 2007 W22 a couple years ago. The ride was awful, with lots of sloshing around. After doing some research it seemed that 2 things needed to be fixed, body roll and that side to side play between the axles and the frame. When I limited both of those the ride became acceptable. I fashioned track bars front and rear to limit horizontal movement of the frame to the axles out of the upper links for a 3-point tractor hookup. I put an anti-sway bar on the front and air bags on the back. The air bags were quite a hassle to install and they tend to lose air but they tighten it up quite a bit at 90 pounds pressure. I feel pretty confident now driving even with a strong side wind.
Ken
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06-13-2018, 10:42 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 1,288
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Thanks Ken for the reply. I'm actually in the process of installing air bags right now. I've got one on, and one to go. Yes, they are a bear. The hardest part is removing the jounce stop and relocating it. I had a stubby drill, and a 90 degree adapter. Even with the wheels off the ground, it was all I could do to get the drill between the frame and the axle.
I find it interesting that it stiffened it up. Are you raising the axle height close to its maximum extension? or does it just limit the compression? Are your bags Airlift, or some other kit?
I'm planning on trac bars, one project at a time.
__________________
2004 AllegroBay 34XB Nov 2017 Banks, Front & Rear Trac bars, Konis
Sold:'83 Revcon Prince 31' FWD GM Performance 502 w/Edelbrock MPFI, Thorley Tri-Ys & Magnaflows, 4L85E 4 spd. Tested to exceed 100 mph.
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06-15-2018, 10:14 AM
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#10
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Member
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Tehachapi, CA
Posts: 30
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airbags
Yes, I bought the AirLift bags. I decided to remove the rear wheels to get them on. I could not imagine making this 65-year-old body do the contortions necessary to get the air bags installed with the rear wheels still on.
I think the track bars will help keep you from getting drug to the side by variations in the road surface or wind gusts. The guy I bought my 35-foot RV from told me that one time he suddenly ended up in another lane due to wind or truck passing and he is a sheriff's deputy and I am sure a much better driver than me. That scared me into fixing the ride and control. The furthest I have been knocked sideways is 4 or 5 feet during the 2 years we have had the rig. I drive about 60 MPH. If a cross wind is bad I slow down and that helps.
Ken
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06-15-2018, 11:42 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 1,288
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I took the wheels off. That was the excuse I needed to buy myself a Dewalt impact wrench. Yes, their biggest one will take the lugs off without a problem. Its a little on the heavy side, but OK. Also ended up with an air operated 12 ton hydraulic jack. Its nice to just push the lever and watch the wheel lift off the ground.
No job is worth doing unless it provides the excuse to buy some new tools.
__________________
2004 AllegroBay 34XB Nov 2017 Banks, Front & Rear Trac bars, Konis
Sold:'83 Revcon Prince 31' FWD GM Performance 502 w/Edelbrock MPFI, Thorley Tri-Ys & Magnaflows, 4L85E 4 spd. Tested to exceed 100 mph.
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06-16-2018, 12:18 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Workhorse Chassis Owner Holiday Rambler Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 156
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Daveinet, if you end up doing this, take pictures and post results. A lot of us are experiencing the same thing. I would like to hear from more people about the sway bars and air bags, since that is the direction I’m thinking of going after replacing the Bilsteins with Konis.
__________________
2006 HR Admiral 37 PBD; Banks Torque Tubes; 1989 suzuki sidekick towed
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06-16-2018, 08:10 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Chicago Area
Posts: 1,288
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I will, especially if it works. The concept has been done by the engineer who designed my previous motorhome. This was done well after his time at Revcon, so not implemented on my previous coach. No personal experience with it yet.
This should compliment the airbags well, as the air bag should be able to adjust how hard you are up against the reversing spring.
I have been daydreaming a lot about how to best make it fit. My original idea of using the inside of the frame channel will not work, as there is just not enough room, especially with all the brake lines and other junk. I'm now thinking of under the leaf spring in front of the axle. The spring stack, and the axle thickness provide quite a bit of height, so I should be able to mount something without loosing ground clearance.
__________________
2004 AllegroBay 34XB Nov 2017 Banks, Front & Rear Trac bars, Konis
Sold:'83 Revcon Prince 31' FWD GM Performance 502 w/Edelbrock MPFI, Thorley Tri-Ys & Magnaflows, 4L85E 4 spd. Tested to exceed 100 mph.
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06-16-2018, 09:33 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Calgary AB
Posts: 160
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I really like my rear Helwig sway bar they do not effect the ride that is how they work, but they change the handling a lot.
I have a front Roadmaster (Davis) track bar, and a Roadmaster steering stabilizer.
I would still maybe like a front sway bar, but it does drive and handle aceptable so i cannot justify the time and $$ read my comments in this post.
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f22/sway-...ml#post3063386
__________________
2008 W22 Pace Arrow 33V
Flat tow 2017 Equinox
(Acme Eze-Tow Dolly sold)
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