Community Forums

psyflyjohn · 07-04-2009, 08:41 AM

Now the rubber hits the road. I just submitted a bill for $1000 to Workhorse for recent brake work. Took it in to have the brakes inspected and slides lubed, and the shop showed me the four badly cracked rotors and worn brake shoes. Had to spend the money to make the motorhome dirveable again. Taking bets on whether Workhorse reimburses me. Their reputation and future is riding on this issue.

Any other drivers submit for reimbursement?

2004 Sea Breeze w/ 37K miles.

DriVer · 07-04-2009, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psyflyjohn

Now the rubber hits the road. I just submitted a bill for $1000 to Workhorse for recent brake work. Took it in to have the brakes inspected and slides lubed, and the shop showed me the four badly cracked rotors and worn brake shoes. Had to spend the money to make the motorhome drivable again. Taking bets on whether Workhorse reimburses me. Their reputation and future is riding on this issue.

psyflyjohn, If the service center did not address the reason why they replaced your rotors and pads I expect that you may have more problems going forward.

Are you reporting that the rotors were cracked all the way through? "OR" did your dealer show you heat cracks which are somewhat routine?

Regarding pads we may see some resistance there in reimbursing those unless it is attributable to a stuck caliper. Friction surfaces like belts and hoses are not typically good candidates for reimbursement.

Without replacing a caliper for just cause which would may have induced a crack in a rotor, I'm not sure how you are going to process your reimbursement claim. In my opinion, I believe that there must be a direct cause and effect demonstrated in order to pursue a good claim statement.

If the calipers are functioning properly, one could make a case for a condition outside the scope of the campaign.

Now that said Workhorse may just reimburse you for your brake work so we'll have to see.

EngineerMike · 07-04-2009, 12:59 PM

I'm prepared to be convinced that heat cracked rotors are "somewhat routine," but it would surprise me. My preconception on that is that metal wear surfaces should be whole, unless cracking is modeled in the engineering analysis with an allowable amount of cracking for which a rotor would be deemed fully functional, and not a candidate for replacement. Unless I miss my guess, the recommendation functionally 100% of the time for cracked rotors is: replace them.

If WH's direction is that a customer's costs are his own when "one could make a case for a condition outside the scope of the campaign" then WH has gone over to the dark side, and isn't so much in the chassis & service business as it is in the lawyering trade. Any unscrupulous lawyer, claims adjuster, etc. can always "make a case." An honorable company would move broadly beyond pulling petty get-out-of-claims-free rabbits out of their hat, and only deny claims where actual proof argued an uncovered cause. Unless there is a contrary proof (e.g.: yes its true, I never changed my brake fluid; why, should I have?), the defect is the proof, and any other direction (IMO) is a cheat.

I continue to hope for more honorable behaviour from WH in settling claims than I believe has been shown to date in handling this unfortunate situation.

DriVer · 07-04-2009, 03:37 PM

Outside of the scope of the campaign would include owners that came down the grade from the Eisenhower Tunnel with their foot constantly on the brake pedal. This driving technique happens all too often.

No company in the world regardless of chassis manufacturer can warranty operator anomalies.

EngineerMike · 07-04-2009, 04:47 PM

Outside of the scope of the campaign would include ... foot constantly on the brake pedal. ...No company in the world regardless of chassis manufacturer can warranty operator anomalies.

I agree 100% with that statement.

Lets try a survey:
1) How many WH chassis owners have had cracked or overheated rotors because you rode your brakes?
2) How many because the brakes were defective?
3) How many because you didn't change your brake fluid and/or attend to pin-slide lube?
4) How many have maintenance records (or lack of them) proving the above? (Hint: nobody's records prove anything about #1, you have to admit to that so be honest)
5) How many have never had a brake problem?

TOMFEN · 07-04-2009, 05:29 PM

Mike, are you going to start a survey? I would like to see some results for the P32 chassis. I have a 2002 Winnebago Brave, 30W with just over 73k miles. The 73k+ miles include two trips from Oregon to Alaska and probably six trips back to Ky and Va.

1) Have not had any cracked or overheated rotors

2) Brakes have not had any defects

3) Brake fluid has been replaced twice, slides have never been lubed

4) Have maintenance records for every thing that has been done to the MH
except for the DIY stuff, I keep a log for this (oil & filter chg, lube etc.

5) I have never had a brake problem, the brakes are showing hardly any wear
at all, had the tires changed about 12k miles ago, they said the pads still
had approx. 80% left on them.

DAN L · 07-05-2009, 02:24 AM

TOMFEN,
i see in your sig that you have "free flow" mufflers.
what kind of mufflers do you have? are they noisier than stock? have you noticed a difference in performance or fuel economy?

TOMFEN · 07-05-2009, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DAN L

TOMFEN,
i see in your sig that you have "free flow" mufflers.
what kind of mufflers do you have? are they noisier than stock? have you noticed a difference in performance or fuel economy?

Dan

I had Aero Turbine Mufflers installed along with the Ultra Power Mod. I got approx one mpg increase in fuel mileage with everything that is on the engine. The mufflers are somewhat louder than stock, especially when I step on it.

The work was done at Brazels RV in Centralia, Wa. Overall I got an increase of 56hp and 60ftlb tq. at the wheels on their dyno.

Tom

wa8yxm · 07-05-2009, 09:13 AM

One MPG on a Workhorse is significant, (Anything over 0.8 is significant) And of all the mods I've seen.. The one that I will most likely get, once I find the cash to pay for it, is the Ultra Power and if you were to bet on Brazel's as the installer.... You'd win.

hamguy · 07-05-2009, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psyflyjohn

Now the rubber hits the road. I just submitted a bill for $1000 to Workhorse for recent brake work. Took it in to have the brakes inspected and slides lubed, and the shop showed me the four badly cracked rotors and worn brake shoes. Had to spend the money to make the motorhome dirveable again. Taking bets on whether Workhorse reimburses me. Their reputation and future is riding on this issue.

Any other drivers submit for reimbursement?

2004 Sea Breeze w/ 37K miles.

Similar situation here. WH says that is normal maintenance. In retrospect, I think I would have to agree. Pads wear. Fact! Rotors can be cracked through misuse. I know, I know, we NEVER ride brakes, fail to downshift when ascending a grade, etc. But to prove anything else is folly. As an ASQC quality engineer, I hate the results but cannot truly fault WH when there is no other signs of failure. If you had slide hangup, that would be different. It kills me to take their side after all the hassles but based on what I know, I have no other choice.

Ducking & running.

jdsr · 07-05-2009, 02:25 PM

Blaming the owners for brake problems is over and done. Getting our money back will probly be another fight. If someone is turned down for a reimburshment the FTC is taking complaints

Full-Timers · 07-05-2009, 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by psyflyjohn

I just submitted a bill for $1000 to Workhorse for recent brake work. Taking bets on whether Workhorse reimburses me.

Unfortunately, I think a Workhorse Rep has to get involved early on and a number of checks and inspections have to be preformed before Workhorse will fork over the cost of repairs.

morninghill · 07-13-2009, 10:05 PM

Brake work done at Brazels a few months ago. They found severe cracking in rear rotors, minor cracking front rotors. They called Workhorse who agreed to pay for rear rotors, declined front rotors. I went ahead and had fronts replaced also, perhaps overkill.

No problems identified with calipers.

Chassis was still under warranty, may have been a deciding factor although I believe rotors are considered a wear item.

EngineerMike · 07-14-2009, 11:02 AM

Morninghill- Per the Bosch Pin Slide Manual link (which is sticky @ top of WH Forum threads), minor cracking which does not reach the limits of the wear surfaces is considered superficial and not cause to replace rotors. If the cracking reaches the edges of the wear surfaces (e.g. you can see the crack on the edge of the rotor) then the rotor must be replaced. IIRC, minor cracking might disappear w/further wear of the caliper, i.e. it may be only thousandths deep, and therefore the metal structure of the rotor disc is intact, vs. if you can see separation of the disc along its edge then the structure is not intact and should be replaced to avoid a problem.

A thorough read of the standards for rotor replacement includes some statements for which the technician's judgment is required as to severity. Crack visibility isn't one of them IMO, they lay out a solid distinction as to threshold for replacement. If you see a crack extending to the rotor's edge or you don't is pretty concrete, so I would have to say Brazel's was following the Bosch docs appropriately. I wouldn't be surprised if service centers are keeping photos at this point, maybe even required to do so to receive reimbursement.