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Old 03-22-2009, 11:00 AM   #1
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Replacing front calipers on 2004 w22

Well I have been waiting to hear if Workhorse is going to do something about our brake problems on the W22. They replaced the rear calipers about 1 1/2 years ago under warrenty because of lockup and loss of brakes. Since then on several occasions I have had the left front heat up. I was able to get stopped and set until it cooled off. But now I am wanting to take a trip up to Ohio and other places and don't want to have to worry all the time I am gone about lockup and over heated brakes. So I am considering replacing the front calipers my-self. I was an auto mechanic all my life so I know it will not be a big problem. Only thing I never worked on a wet hub before. So not sure what I will be getting into. Also will have to buy a one inch breaker bar and correct size socket and a piece of pipe to break the lugs loose. Unless I have to I don't think I will have the rotors turned. If I do then I will have to remove the hub and rotor to have that done. Do you drain the oil from the hub or what exactly do you have to do that is different than the bearing that are packed with wheel bearing grease. I still have places in Tampa where I can buy the calipers at dealer cost so if I do it myself it will be a lot cheaper than if I have someone do it for me. Not sure about the size of the socket for the lug bolts, maybe some one can help . I figure a four ft. section of pipe and with me standing on it they will come loose. Any suggestions you can give me will help this old man.
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Old 03-22-2009, 02:30 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darbyjudy View Post
Well I have been waiting to hear if Workhorse is going to do something about our brake problems on the W22. They replaced the rear calipers about 1 1/2 years ago under warrenty because of lockup and loss of brakes. Since then on several occasions I have had the left front heat up. I was able to get stopped and set until it cooled off. But now I am wanting to take a trip up to Ohio and other places and don't want to have to worry all the time I am gone about lockup and over heated brakes. So I am considering replacing the front calipers my-self. I was an auto mechanic all my life so I know it will not be a big problem. Only thing I never worked on a wet hub before. So not sure what I will be getting into. Also will have to buy a one inch breaker bar and correct size socket and a piece of pipe to break the lugs loose. Unless I have to I don't think I will have the rotors turned. If I do then I will have to remove the hub and rotor to have that done. Do you drain the oil from the hub or what exactly do you have to do that is different than the bearing that are packed with wheel bearing grease. I still have places in Tampa where I can buy the calipers at dealer cost so if I do it myself it will be a lot cheaper than if I have someone do it for me. Not sure about the size of the socket for the lug bolts, maybe some one can help . I figure a four ft. section of pipe and with me standing on it they will come loose. Any suggestions you can give me will help this old man.
If you havnt reported it to nhtsa I hope you will. you can report it here www.nhtsa.gov. Even if its done under warr it needs to be reported.
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Old 03-22-2009, 07:15 PM   #3
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Hi Darbyjudy

I too have worked on all type of vehicles for over 50 years, and your motorhome is no different, just bigger and heavier parts.


find a fitting and plug the end of your brake line, even if you are going to flush. Will run out fairly fast, and you do not want air in the system.

the bolts that fasten the caliper top the floating pins may or may not come out easily after breaking the loctite. pull the sliding pins, check the boot for integrity, clean, relube thoroughly with something like staylube, especially where the boot seals against the steel. Do not mix the leading and trailing pins; solid pin leading, "rubber" pin trailing. After install, ensure they slide freely.

Check rotor runout. Correct as necessary. If they need turning, only then will you have to remove the hub cap and pull the hub assembly. Seal replacement depends on whether you re-install a one piece or two piece. Originals were one piece, easier for assembly line work, and doesn't need spindle ring (wear ring) alignment and install tool. I've used the two piece seal on the previously installed spindle ring.

Bearings are typical "no preload" taper. Torque to 100 '# (you better recheck that #) while rolling the hub forward and backward. Back off nut just enough to relieve preload, with no more than a couple of thou end-play.

New hubcap gasket available from International, or parts dealers. Refill the hub with proper oil, let sit, add, let sit, add, roll, let sit add, etc.

Ensure pads are installed properly, inside vs. outside. Clean caliper bolts per Bosch directions, install caliper, install trailing bolt in part way temporarily. Put medium strength (blue) loctite on leading bolt, install and torque to 90-100'# immediately. Then remove trailing bolt, add loctite, torque immediately.

install hose, bleed. Can be done without engine running.

Entire job about 20 minutes per wheel if you don't have to pull the hub.

When I went to do my brakes, the front debris shields had beenremoved. I pulled the rears. Lets lots more air exposure.

Remember, when retorquing the wheel nuts, the threads must be clean and dry. 475'#'s. I have a 600# click wrench about 4' long. I attached a 2x4 to it with 4 hose clamps untill I can get a piece of tubing. Gives me a 7' lever. Torque in stages. Socket is metric, need snug fit because of the extensions needed to clear the wheels and bodywork(rear). My wife even helps me torquing up by moving the socket from nut to nut while I handle the long heavy wrench. I will never, never, never use an impact wrench, except to remove. Easy.

Pull the ABS sensors (be careful about the lead). May need a 5/16 12 point socket. clean and regrease and install. Push and twist until it jambs up against the exciter ring, then carefull retract about .010" so it clears the metal ring. They are fine up to about .020" from ring. Clean the connector and thoroughly apply dielectric grease to contacts and shell interior. Helps keep moisture out.

Old calipers can be rebuilt as spares. Have fun.

Larry

See The sticky thread for the Bosch brakes.
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Old 03-22-2009, 10:39 PM   #4
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The lugs are 450 to 475 ft lbs each which (if I remember reading right) is 450 to 475 lbs on a 1 foot breaker bar. So you may need about a 4 foot breaker bar depending on how much you weigh.
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Old 03-23-2009, 02:14 AM   #5
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darbyjudy:
the lug nut torque is 475 ft lbs. i use a 3/4 drive 600 ft# harbor freight torque wr, about $150. it is 42" long. i also bought a 3/4 drive socket set from harbor freight, about $50. the wheel cover retaining nuts are 30mm, or 1 3/16. the lug nuts are 33mm or 1 5/16 (loose fit). i bought the sae socket set. hf sells both. the lug nuts are actually metric.
there used to be a harbor freight store in n. tampa.
btw, i graduated from chamberlain hs in 1961.
it is very important to torque the lug nuts to spec upon reinstallation of the wheels and recheck the torque after a few miles.
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Old 03-23-2009, 07:42 AM   #6
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Dan I don't know if you remember but at Bearss Ave and I 75 there was a Gulf Gas Station. I leased that station in 1973 and operated a garage there until about 9 years ago. It finally became a Mobile gas station.
I did report the brake problem to the NHTSA when the rear failed. I was very lucky for I lost the brakes completely, no pedal at all.
I pay real close attention to the brakes now for it scared the crap out of me. I can tell when the front start to heat, I will get a little shutter in the steering wheel, at that point I get off the road and stop. It has happened two times and both times after cooling off I have driven hundreds of miles without any more problem. But I just hate to have that worry all the time I am driving.
Thanks for all the information.
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Old 03-23-2009, 10:43 AM   #7
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I was very lucky for I lost the brakes completely, no pedal at all.
I pay real close attention to the brakes now for it scared the crap out of me. But I just hate to have that worry all the time I am driving.
Thanks for all the information.
I've had 3 failures and lost the pedal twice. Scared is putting it mildly. I use to tell people getting there was half the fun. Not anymore. Still waiting on nhtsa.
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Old 03-23-2009, 05:31 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by darbyjudy View Post
Dan I don't know if you remember but at Bearss Ave and I 75 there was a Gulf Gas Station. I leased that station in 1973 and operated a garage there until about 9 years ago. It finally became a Mobile gas station.
I did report the brake problem to the NHTSA when the rear failed. I was very lucky for I lost the brakes completely, no pedal at all.
I pay real close attention to the brakes now for it scared the crap out of me. I can tell when the front start to heat, I will get a little shutter in the steering wheel, at that point I get off the road and stop. It has happened two times and both times after cooling off I have driven hundreds of miles without any more problem. But I just hate to have that worry all the time I am driving.
Thanks for all the information.
there was no i75 when i left tampa in 1961 to join the air force.
i installed the tst truck wireless tire temperature and pressure monitor system to keep tabs on the brake temperatures. about $300. it works well.
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Old 03-24-2009, 03:40 PM   #9
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RetPay2,

That is a great write up on the calipers. Thanks so very much-- I filed it on my computer for future reference.

You know more about servicing them than the local Workhorse folks. They screwed me up bad because my front axles had wear sleeves on them. I guess they were installed when the first brake recall/update was done on my rig in south Texas,

The local Workhorse repair facility, near me in NC, apparently installed the wrong seals and the right front was leaking badly after I had the bearings replaced, at their recommendation. When I came back home after 6 months they said they only warranty their work for 6 months-- I was a few days over that. They quickly reconsidered their position and fixed the problem.

Thanks again,
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Old 03-24-2009, 03:43 PM   #10
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RetPay2,They quickly reconsidered their position and fixed the problem.
Max, In orther words, you got them to check their six!
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Old 03-24-2009, 03:48 PM   #11
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Driver--

"Roger that!!"
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Old 03-24-2009, 04:05 PM   #12
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I agree with Max, great post on the front axle. I had to go get the big sockets and breaker bars also, funny thing around here is we all go through the same stuff at different times and then teach eachother about the lessons learned. You won't get that from a shop you just pull into.

Max best to Cindy from Linda and Me. Are you coming to Maine this year? We hope you do because this will be us->
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Old 03-24-2009, 04:51 PM   #13
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Good to see you back AL--

Any excitement this past season?? If so, I hope not like '08.

Yup, we're going back to BBH, early May. Maybe we'll see yuh

Best to your lovely bride---
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