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Old 01-19-2010, 05:36 PM   #57
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Well I have a pittance of good news. I took my dolphin in to replace the rotors and the RF caliper was seized. WH replaced that and when they took it off the rack the LF seized. After another round of emails now they are replacing it and both ABS sensors.

This leads me to wonder if WH will be financially solvent when they get the new calipers? This snafu is in my opinion made by Bosch and they should be bankrolling WH. There is obviously enough fault to go around But does WH have the dollars to replace all the existing calipers and then do it again when the recall begins with updated calipers. Lets just hope they dont go the Monaco route and leave us with no help at all.
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Old 01-19-2010, 05:40 PM   #58
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You're absolutely right. The Arvin Meritor Quadraulic brake cost a whole bunch more money. That's one of the reasons for the big difference in price between the W22 and W24. Regardless if a customer wants to buy Quad. brakes or not, you have to convince the OEM to buy them and they are not likely to spend any extra money for Quad brakes on a W22 since they are overkill on a 22K chassis.
Not if they work.
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Old 01-19-2010, 06:24 PM   #59
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Actually one is too heavy and expensive and the other is not heavy enough. That's the only reason. Bosch will recover from this disaster and we'll be using them for many years to come. Ford & Freightliner have not relinquished their need either to use Bosch calipers and the Hydro-Max as well.

The Bosch brakes will work just fine, let's get this campaign behind us and move forward.
I don't know exactly what a "Chief Workhorse Ambassador" is. Please explain. Joe
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Old 01-19-2010, 07:14 PM   #60
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Not if they work.
I'm sorry .. please explain.
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Old 01-19-2010, 10:43 PM   #61
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I would be more than willing to "pay" for brakes that worked from the getgo and even were over engineered. I know that most would like the "lowest bidder" parts but I have found out that it is usually cheaper to buy the better made product the first time. When I bought my 2003 W22 I didn't know about the brake problems and the W24 chassie was not available and sadly I believed that the manufacturer would know how to make brakes after doing so for over 100 years. I won't mention the inadequate shocks nore the abusive attitude by Mesa Rv when I first went in there with cracked rotors.
I have even asked you in the past if W24 brakes could be used on the W22 and you said no ( I was and am still willing to spend the money).
I like everything else about the W22 but don't like being on edge waiting for a brake drag or another cracked rotor.
I know "someday" it will "be behind us" but God they are slow. If it was an areoplane etc. it would be almost instant.
I know I could trade it off but $$$$ is one problem and I simply love the construction of my coach body - even after 6 1/2 years of using it.
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Old 01-20-2010, 12:17 AM   #62
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JCM.

I'm with you on being willing to pay for better parts. It's a shame we can't order a motor home like you could a car 40 years ago. You ordered part by part what options you wanted. Being able to order better inverters, converters, tvs, shocks etc. would be nice. Today's manufacturers all seem to think they can save money by limiting options to simplify production. Maybe they can, but I don't like not having the choice. But the brake issue is not one so much of cost or quality as an application that did not take into account how motor homes are generally used. The Bosch brakes have little, if any, problems in most applications. Commercial vehicles, like UPS trucks that get driven hard every day get great service from these brakes. These brakes are properly sized for our coaches and stop very well. I've rearrainged the cabinets in mine more than once when some idiot pulled out in front of me....the last time I thought the cat was going to pass me. But I stopped very quickly and under control. I'm very satisfied with the performance, but the application problems are a pain in the butt for too many of us.

Dave
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:44 AM   #63
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does the w24 have different calipers than the w22? If so, will they bolt on to the w22? the extra cost I would be willing to pay If I could purchase w24 brakes and I would install now
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Old 01-20-2010, 07:02 AM   #64
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does the W24 have different calipers than the w22? If so, will they bolt on to the W22? the extra cost I would be willing to pay If I could purchase W24 brakes and I would install now
Ron, A detailed description of the Quadraulic calipers is available in the 2009 Chassis Guide which you can access from this site. See the stickies at the top of the forum. Arvin Meritor Quadraulic calipers are not simply a bolt on solution one might wish they were. It's an entire system from the ground up.
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Old 01-20-2010, 05:49 PM   #65
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JCM.
But the brake issue is not one so much of cost or quality as an application that did not take into account how motor homes are generally used. The Bosch brakes have little, if any, problems in most applications. Commercial vehicles, like UPS trucks that get driven hard every day get great service from these brakes. These brakes are properly sized for our coaches and stop very well. I've rearrainged the cabinets in mine more than once when some idiot pulled out in front of me....the last time I thought the cat was going to pass me. But I stopped very quickly and under control. I'm very satisfied with the performance, but the application problems are a pain in the butt for too many of us.

Dave
Well stated. I have to agree with Davel's conclusions except we don't have a cat just 2 dogs.

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Old 01-20-2010, 06:07 PM   #66
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....the last time I thought the cat was going to pass me. But I stopped very quickly and under control....
Now I don't care who you are, that's funny right there! written as: LTCG
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Old 01-21-2010, 01:04 PM   #67
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Let me add some fuel to the fire.
This brake issue has been going on longer than some of you think. First it was thought that the problem was the Guide Pins so Workhorse issued a recall to replace the pins. This was back in 2004…That’s more than 5 years ago.


Build Years/Makes/Models: 2000 - 2002 WORKHORSE W20
2000 - 2002 WORKHORSE W22
UNits affected: 10235
Recall Number: 04V084000
Summary: ON CERTAIN MOTORHOME CHASSIS EQUIPPED WITH BOSCH ZOPS, THE PADS CAN DRAG ON THE ROTOR SURFACE DUE TO THE PIN SLIDE.
Consequence: A HANG UP OR LOCK UP MAY CAUSE THE CALIPERS TO OVER HEAT AND NOT ALLOW THE DRIVER TO STOP SAFELY. THIS COULD CAUSE OVERHEATING OF THE BRAKE CALIPERS WHICH COULD RESULT IN A VEHICLE FIRE.
Remedy: DEALERS WILL INSPECT, REPAIR AND REPLACE ACCORDING TO THE PROCEDURE DEVELOPED BY BOSCH (SEE CAMPAIGN 03E064000). THE RECALL BEGAN ON AUGUST 1, 2004. OWNERS SHOULD CONTACT WORKHORSE AT 1-877-294-6773.
Notes: WORKHORSE RECALL NO. 50401-C.CUSTOMER'S CAN ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236).
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Old 01-21-2010, 06:56 PM   #68
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Let me add some fuel to the fire.
This brake issue has been going on longer than some of you think. First it was thought that the problem was the Guide Pins so Workhorse issued a recall to replace the pins. This was back in 2004…That’s more than 5 years ago.


Build Years/Makes/Models: 2000 - 2002 WORKHORSE W20
2000 - 2002 WORKHORSE W22
Units affected: 10235
Recall Number: 04V084000
Notes: WORKHORSE RECALL NO. 50401-C.CUSTOMER'S CAN ALSO CONTACT THE NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION'S AUTO SAFETY HOTLINE AT 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236).
Full Timers, I wrote often about this issue. Again WCC was a minor participant in this matter with the vast majority of the installed braking systems at the time being in the commercial sector or on school busses.

This recall was launched by the Feds (Recall Number: 04V084000) because Workhorse has no authority or need to fix thousands of school busses and other commercial vehicles.

So I would agree that "Yes" Bosch began presenting problems with ZOPS calipers as far back as 2001. When I'm on the road and I check VIN# numbers for recalls, the 50401-C appears to be completed as I haven't seen any owners out there that are lacking to have this recall cleared.

At that time the end game of the campaign was to change 2 pins and that would fix everything. Unfortunately, we all have seen where that is not the case since all of those calipers plus some many more ZOHT calipers are subject to the current campaign the 50901-C.
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Old 01-22-2010, 01:32 PM   #69
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Actually one is too heavy and expensive and the other is not heavy enough. That's the only reason. Bosch will recover from this disaster and we'll be using them for many years to come. Ford & Freightliner have not relinquished their need either to use Bosch calipers and the Hydro-Max as well.

The Bosch brakes will work just fine, let's get this campaign behind us and move forward.
I will not be using them, company is too laxed about the issue. I love the GM power train, but I need to stop also. And I mean stop safely. On every car that I have restored, the brakes have had to be working GRRRREAAAT!
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Old 01-22-2010, 02:21 PM   #70
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.... the brakes have had to be working GRRRREAAAT!
GWinger2, My brakes are working great!
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