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Old 09-11-2007, 09:04 AM   #1
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OK, I am still trying to sort out my new MH and the squirrely steering. This is my first MH but the two previous test drives I did were not this bad.
I have read many of the tire pressure threads and I am still a little cornfuzed.

I had it weighed like we would travel minus refrigerator food and a copilot. I have an appointment tomorrow to have a chassis inspection done to see if anything is out of wack(including alignment). And if anything needs to be corrected, I will go from there. My main goal is to avoid spending $$ on aftermarket stuff until I have all the basics checked. This has been the recommendation by this forum and friends.

My coach is in my sig. It has a W-24 with 235/80R22.5 Michelin XRV tires. And the tires were all inflated to 105psi at delivery which I know is too much for the weight of the coach(possibly handling and ride also). They are still up there until I know what I should do.
My coach sticker states inflation pressures should be 105psi for the fronts and 95psi for the rears.

After weighing the coach, the front axle weighs 7040lb and rear axle weighs 14240lb for a 21280lb coach weight.
I did separate corner weights by pulling each corner on the scale to get weights but they do not add up to the axle weights(or total coach weight) and I don't know why. But from what I remember, the fronts are less than 30 lbs and the rears are less than 200lb difference corner to corner. I don't have the weight sheet in front of me.
By dividing the axle weights in half, and then looking at the Michelin inflation chart, my fronts should be between 70-75psi(3520lb each corner) and the rears at 80-85psi(7120lb each corner).
Both seem low from what I have read on the forum from what people seem to air up to. Also, two separate friends have said that they were told by truck and heavy duty tire shops to never run less than 80-85psi in any tires.

So the quandry is now, what do I keep the tires at. Based on above, I was going to run the fronts at 85 and the rears at 85. I know a little experimentation may be involved but my main concern is not to underinflate them.

I know there are lots of opinions on this but I would appreciate any further feedback.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-11-2007, 09:04 AM   #2
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OK, I am still trying to sort out my new MH and the squirrely steering. This is my first MH but the two previous test drives I did were not this bad.
I have read many of the tire pressure threads and I am still a little cornfuzed.

I had it weighed like we would travel minus refrigerator food and a copilot. I have an appointment tomorrow to have a chassis inspection done to see if anything is out of wack(including alignment). And if anything needs to be corrected, I will go from there. My main goal is to avoid spending $$ on aftermarket stuff until I have all the basics checked. This has been the recommendation by this forum and friends.

My coach is in my sig. It has a W-24 with 235/80R22.5 Michelin XRV tires. And the tires were all inflated to 105psi at delivery which I know is too much for the weight of the coach(possibly handling and ride also). They are still up there until I know what I should do.
My coach sticker states inflation pressures should be 105psi for the fronts and 95psi for the rears.

After weighing the coach, the front axle weighs 7040lb and rear axle weighs 14240lb for a 21280lb coach weight.
I did separate corner weights by pulling each corner on the scale to get weights but they do not add up to the axle weights(or total coach weight) and I don't know why. But from what I remember, the fronts are less than 30 lbs and the rears are less than 200lb difference corner to corner. I don't have the weight sheet in front of me.
By dividing the axle weights in half, and then looking at the Michelin inflation chart, my fronts should be between 70-75psi(3520lb each corner) and the rears at 80-85psi(7120lb each corner).
Both seem low from what I have read on the forum from what people seem to air up to. Also, two separate friends have said that they were told by truck and heavy duty tire shops to never run less than 80-85psi in any tires.

So the quandry is now, what do I keep the tires at. Based on above, I was going to run the fronts at 85 and the rears at 85. I know a little experimentation may be involved but my main concern is not to underinflate them.

I know there are lots of opinions on this but I would appreciate any further feedback.

Thanks in advance.
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Old 09-11-2007, 12:32 PM   #3
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My 2006 coach has a 2005 W22 chassis and I have "squirrely" handling also. I've had everything checked and the W22 gets a clean bill of health. From other comments I've seen this seems to be a reasonably common complaint for certain Workhorse chassis. I'm getting used to the "squirrely" handling. The engine is smooth and powerful, and the Allison transmission is great, I guess you can't have everything.
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Old 09-11-2007, 01:10 PM   #4
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I have a W-22 and my weights are very similar to yours. I run 95 in the front and 90 in the rear. DriVer has similar weights, and that is the pressure he runs also....Hey..I figure if he can get 60K out of his Michelins, maybe I can too....

My motorhome handles just fine....but I've owned many MANY RVs and am used to the way they handle.

EDIT: My Winnebago sticker said to run 100 front, 90 rear...(rode like a rattle trap with the fronts that high!!!)
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Old 09-11-2007, 01:50 PM   #5
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I suggest you try 95# in all six tires just to see if that improves handling. Personally I run these pressures on my W22 as I perfer the better handling even though the ride will be more firm and you'll feel the pot-holes.

Also, though large RV's can handle well, a 20,000 to 30,000 pound RV is going to handle more like a truck than a car. Perhaps not bad but never as docile as the family car.
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Old 09-11-2007, 01:56 PM   #6
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RV 4 2, My W24 coach weighs out almost exactly as yours. F axel, 7,600 & R axel 14,340 for total of 21,940 lb. with 2 people and fridge loaded, water, propane, ready to camp. I run 100 lb on front and 90 in the rears. I have no wandering. Handels almost as well as my 06 Silverado. A little wind gust reaction but not much.

When new it had the typical wander characteristics you hear so much about. I took it to a well known alighment shop recommeded by my local Work Horse Repair shop. They did a complete alignment, front to rear alignment, whole 9 yards. Everything was right on. Understanding my problem, the owner suggested I change the Caster from the 3.5 degrees WH sets them at to about 5 degrees. Adds shims that tilts the front axel and wheels forward by apx. 2 more degrees. He said he has done a lot of WH chassis alignments and has foud this to be a signficant change to improve the handeling. The owner said Work Horse knows about this and approves this chassis adjustment. He told me he would install anything I wanted, Hendersons, Davis track bars, safety steer, sway control stuff, etc., had them all in stock, but always advises his customers to try this $75 buck adj. first and most are happy and don't go any further. I was under a time constraint so I said to do the Caster change and put a front track bar on.
I couldn't believe the immediate improved change in handeling. I wish I had had the time to try the Caster change before putting on the front track bar as I believe this man knew what he was talking about. Oh well, I'm a happy WH owner now.

This was a large alignment facility that dealt mainly with large trucks. You might want to investigate this more.
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Old 09-11-2007, 03:53 PM   #7
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One word or caution: You cannot get accurate inflation PSI's if you take the axle weight and divide by two. Michelin states the PSI is based on the heaviest axle end for that axle. 70PSI for the front seems light. I run 90 in the front and 95 in the rear.

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Old 09-11-2007, 06:11 PM   #8
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I agree with FreshAir's assessment. I've done all the add ons before the caster change was done. The squirrely handling was still there until after the caster was changed. But since I also went for a Safe-T-Plus, there may have been some benefit from that too.

I now have a very stable less tiresome handling motor home.

Marty
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Old 09-12-2007, 03:38 AM   #9
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If the weights do not add up.. .You may have a defective scale, or the ground and scale are not level so the rig was "Tilted" when you did the wheel weights.

Your weights are close enough that the "Divide by two" system should work well

Normally I would say treat each wheel seperate, I hear "both ends of the axel must be the same" and that is simply not true, you do each wheel by the load it carries.

But in your case.. Sounds like the rig is fairly well balanced.. If the driver's front for example was heavier, adding the co-pilot may equal them out. on the rear, I don't know which side was heavier but again, filling the fridge may well bring them into the same weight band. So your case is the exception, a well balanced coach.


Some other issues with motor homes in general

You have a lot of tail to wag. Workhorse used a decent anti-sway bar but did not put pan-hard bars on.

(NOTE: The definations of sway and such gave me trouble so now that I understand them I'll include here)

Imagine your rig is a cradle, cradles can be rocked side to side... That is sway

Now imagine it's a dog.. The tail wags side to side.. That's Wag. When the tail wags (As happens when a truck passes) the body moves side to side on the axle, Makes it hard to control

A Pan Hard bar locks the body to a spot above the axle..

True story: My first trip out west in Jan 2006, Towing a 1992 Chevy Lumina behind the Workhorse. When i got to Vegas it was a relief to drive that lumina. I mean white knuckle time in the coach.

After returning home I added a Blue Ox True Center stearing stablizer.. This helped

I then added a Davis True Trac track bar (or Pan Hard Bar) this too helped

Second Trip to Vegas, arriving 12/1/2006.. still towing the lumina.. Man was that towed squirrelly when I got there. I mean it wanted to dance all over the road.. .Same towed, Same towed exactly. No changes or modifications to the towed at all.
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Old 09-12-2007, 03:27 PM   #10
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Well, I dropped it off today. I talked to the service manager and based on just axle weights, he feels the front end is about 400-500lbs too light. Not much I can do about that. I was carrying 3/4 fresh water(rearward of rear axle) and he suggested dropping that level. He also suggested putting any heavy items in the basement forward of the rear axle. And except for my toolbox(10hx10dx24W or so full of tools)there is not much I can move forward. We don't carry anything heavy inside and all food is midship.
He said they would do a full chassis inspection and re-weigh the coach to make sure there is nothing else wrong. He mentioned weighing front to back, side to side and all 4 corners. He said I should get a call in a couple of days with the results. I was also asking about the Safe-t-Steer. He said that would help with steering and I am thinking more safety. I also mentioned about how some of you had the caster changed and he did not feel that would be necessary. So we will see.
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Old 09-12-2007, 05:00 PM   #11
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RV 4 2:
I also mentioned about how some of you had the caster changed and he did not feel that would be necessary. So we will see. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Mike,
If he puts your machine on a front end alignment rack he should be able to tell you what the value is for caster.

The members here have seen where directional control improves significantly when the toe is properly set, air pressures are set to the actual weight rating (+5 psi), actual loads on the tires are not terribly skewed and the caster is close to 5 degrees.

Unfortunately an alignment is not typically an item that is covered under warranty.
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Old 09-13-2007, 06:59 AM   #12
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RV 4 2:
I was also asking about the Safe-t-Steer. He said that would help with steering and I am thinking more safety. I also mentioned about how some of you had the caster changed and he did not feel that would be necessary. So we will see. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mike,If I may, I'd like to pass on some additional information that I was told by Alignment Specialist in Salt Lake City, the people that fixed my handeling problem.

As to a Safety Steer, Safety Plus, etc. I was told they are highly recommended for what they are intended for, safety with blowouts, pot holes, soft shoulers etc. However, they are not intended to fix a handeling problem. They informed me, from their experience, that they did not want to put one on untill I found and fixed the real cause as it may, depending on the problrm, even make the handeling worse in some cases, and to futher trouble shoot and fix the real problem they must disconnect it.

I will be getting a Safety-Steer, the one with the shock, soon. I'm no expert in these things, but thought I'd pass this on. Good luck.

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Old 09-13-2007, 08:33 AM   #13
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Pat, passon all the information you want, I will take all I can get. Sorry if I was not clear, The Safe t Steer was going to be for safety from my end, I have never had any tire actually blow out on me but have had 2 tires start to tread separate and luckily I caught them prior to any real damage. If it helps the handling, that will be a bonus. As for the Safe t Steer hiding possible problems, I didn't think of that. I may have to rethingk putting it on right away. Thank you.
I am still waiting to hear from them as to what they find out prior to putting that thing on. I am hoping they will find something(kind of). My original plan was to eliminate all the easy things first before putting money into the chassis. I am still trying to stick to that.

BTW, what ended up being the cause of your handling problem?

Thanks again.
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Old 09-13-2007, 09:34 AM   #14
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Mike, PLEASE post back with the with what the shop did/did not do to fix the problem.

We have a 2008 Allegro Bay 35TSB, 36' with a 254WB on a W24. Traveling down a smooth interstate, with no wind, at 60-62 we are constantly correcting the steering very small amounts to keep it in the lane. We are virtually unaffected by 18 wheelers passing, or when we pass them--and even more important, it is pretty much unaffected by the studded snow tire ruts in I90 through Spokane. We had a wheel alignment done 2 months ago (sent to an alignment shop by the Workhorse shop) pretty much loaded as we travel, and the tires are at 100lbs in front, 95lbs in back, a few pounds higher than they need to be.

This rig does not require the correction the previous rig did--a 35' pusher on a 208"wb--it was uncontrollable through the snow tire ruts, especially with a towed.

I am really interested in what you do correct this.

Oh---yes we look a far way down the road.
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