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Old 02-26-2009, 02:45 PM   #43
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There's no reason to gather around the fire at night with fellow RVers, we have the Internet.
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Old 02-26-2009, 03:38 PM   #44
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It can get cool around this fire at times but usually very good company,
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Originally posted by abarkl:
There's no reason to gather around the fire at night with fellow RVers, we have the Internet.
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Old 02-26-2009, 04:08 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by jdsr:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dieselclacker:

I have had no problems with the brakes on my motorhome, and would put up a mighty argument with a dealer whos only excuse for refusing it as a trade in were the brakes. I have no ax to grind with Workhorse over brakes. Actia, yes...brakes no.
As usual, just my opinion.

Dieselclacker
What year and what chassis is your mh. Is it a chassis year that is in the nhtsa ea. I've had 2 mh on ford chassis that I didnt have any trouble with either. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Richard, I drive a 2004 Allegro thats built on a 2003 Workhorse W-22 chassis. To date I have close to 30K miles on it, and no brake issues yet. I do not run the ABS on the coach. I have done zero maintenance on the brakes in 5 years, and do not intend on doing so until time for brake pads. I do not subscribe to the theory of changing brake fluid as a preventative to brake dragging problems.

Dieselclacker

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Old 02-26-2009, 04:10 PM   #46
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Hey, if I had the opportunity to sit around the fire with you guys, I would take it in a heart beat. I'll bring a sixer of Blue Moons. I like mine with an orange slice in it.
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Old 02-26-2009, 04:13 PM   #47
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To Richard or anyone else who has "ANY KIND" of info related to our brake failures(I've had 3) or the chassis mfg and shares it with us, thank you.
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Old 02-27-2009, 02:03 AM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by -Gramps-:
Fixer, its something isn't it?

Sometimes you catch a fish by just dangling a line in a pond.
Sometimes you catch a lot of fish by throwing a grenade in the same pond.

It just took me a little while to realize I was floating on the surface.


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Old 02-27-2009, 03:16 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by -Gramps-:
I'll bring a sixer of Blue Moons. I like mine with an orange slice in it.
Gramps!!! A little off topic but if you like Blue Moon with a slice of orange give Shock Top a try, with a slice of orange. I discovered it in Cedar Key Fl. and it was so good my girl friend wrecked her bycicle on the way back to the MH. No permenant damage, just a (never forget) memory.
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Old 02-27-2009, 03:33 AM   #50
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Funny you should mention that. I had a Shock Top at Red Robin, just a few days ago. Never heard of it before. It was really good, goes well with giant fried Onion Rings.
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Old 02-27-2009, 04:10 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally posted by dieselclacker:
I do not run the ABS on the coach.

Dieselclacker
Apparently you have some brake concerns or you would not have disabled the ABS safety system.

Or is this an incorrect assumption??

-Tom
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Old 02-27-2009, 04:28 AM   #52
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ALSO OFF TOPIC,
Headed to Cedar Key today,will watch for wayward bicycles.

Quote:
Originally posted by Brake-less:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by -Gramps-:
I'll bring a sixer of Blue Moons. I like mine with an orange slice in it.
Gramps!!! A little off topic but if you like Blue Moon with a slice of orange give Shock Top a try, with a slice of orange. I discovered it in Cedar Key Fl. and it was so good my girl friend wrecked her bycicle on the way back to the MH. No permenant damage, just a (never forget) memory. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
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Old 02-27-2009, 04:54 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tom N:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dieselclacker:
I do not run the ABS on the coach.

Dieselclacker
Apparently you have some brake concerns or you would not have disabled the ABS safety system.

Or is this an incorrect assumption??

-Tom </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



TomN, I have no use for the ABS system on the motorhome since I don't drive in conditions where it would be a benefit. And since it is a very complicated system that could cause either braking problems, or false indications, (unseated sensors causing ABS warning light to come on) etc, I keep it disabled. If I drove on snow or ice I would use it. Not that it matters, but, I believe I have read that stopping distance on dry road is a few feet shorter without, than with ABS.
As for a being concerned about brakes on my motorhome, you betcha I'm concerned, and I drive it like it weighs 20K pounds, which it does, and have had no brake problems so far. Being the mechanical beast that it is, this does not mean they won't fail the next time out. But hey...thats what mechanics are for.

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Old 02-27-2009, 06:42 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by dieselclacker:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom N:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dieselclacker:
I do not run the ABS on the coach.

Dieselclacker
Apparently you have some brake concerns or you would not have disabled the ABS safety system.

Or is this an incorrect assumption??

-Tom </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



TomN, I have no use for the ABS system on the motorhome since I don't drive in conditions where it would be a benefit. And since it is a very complicated system that could cause either braking problems, or false indications, (unseated sensors causing ABS warning light to come on) etc, I keep it disabled. If I drove on snow or ice I would use it. Not that it matters, but, I believe I have read that stopping distance on dry road is a few feet shorter without, than with ABS.
As for a being concerned about brakes on my motorhome, you betcha I'm concerned, and I drive it like it weighs 20K pounds, which it does, and have had no brake problems so far. Being the mechanical beast that it is, this does not mean they won't fail the next time out. But hey...thats what mechanics are for.

Dieselclacker </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I bet engineers love it when the the layperson over-rides safety features that they spend millions of dollars perfecting... ABS is far only being necessary on ice or snow.
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Old 02-27-2009, 06:51 AM   #55
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Quote:
Originally posted by dieselclacker:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by jdsr:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dieselclacker:

I have had no problems with the brakes on my motorhome, and would put up a mighty argument with a dealer whos only excuse for refusing it as a trade in were the brakes. I have no ax to grind with Workhorse over brakes. Actia, yes...brakes no.
As usual, just my opinion.

Dieselclacker
What year and what chassis is your mh. Is it a chassis year that is in the nhtsa ea. I've had 2 mh on ford chassis that I didnt have any trouble with either. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Richard, I drive a 2004 Allegro thats built on a 2003 Workhorse W-22 chassis. To date I have close to 30K miles on it, and no brake issues yet. I do not run the ABS on the coach. I have done zero maintenance on the brakes in 5 years, and do not intend on doing so until time for brake pads. I do not subscribe to the theory of changing brake fluid as a preventative to brake dragging problems.

Dieselclacker

Dieselclacker </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dieselclacker;

Looks like you responded to me regarding someone else's question. It's great that you haven't had any brake issues; you're not alone, as many have not. Unfortunately, many have, so while I'm not dismissing the fact that you and others have not had any problems, I guess I just don't understand why people here want to dismiss the issue to those that have and to those that have a concern that they eventually 'could', or at least are concerend about it from a safety issue.

I too do not currently subscribe to the 'brake fluid change' solution as a cure-all, but certainly can't hurt anything by doing it and it is inexpensive.
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Old 02-27-2009, 08:25 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally posted by Photog:

([i]It's not my place to give you permission.
It would appear that Route 66 says its OK.[/QUOTE]

I can help you out! I travel California, Oregon and Nevada; when you're actually in the market and drive out this way, let me know what dealer you're at or headed to and I'll be more than happy to let you know 'yes' or 'no' regarding the dealer. You can then decide who you want to do business with but most likely you'll want to buy a lot more local than driving out to the west coast. Sure makes it a lot cheaper and easier when working out all the 'bugs' in a new motorhome.

UPDATE: The sales manager emailed me yesterday, now knowing who I am, (no, I don't know his screen name or if he is even a member here and I didn't ask; he had my information from the initial work-up sheet when I was at the store.) as he says he goes to five different RV forums and likes to follow the industry from a customer stand-point.

The current policy at his store 'is-what-it-is' and stated that the market is always in flux and everything changes. Just because they don't want specific model trade-in's today doesn't mean that's the policy forever. The best example is if Workhorse or Bosch implement some sort of brake inspection and repair program, one that owners or selling dealers aren't liable for, that changes everything, as dealers would be less likely to get caught up in litigation and so would want those trade-ins. Also, since the problems seem to be in a very specific model-year range and two specific chassis, there probably comes a time where the ones that were going to have issues have had them and been repaired, or the chassis, for whatever the reason, just wasn't subject to the problem, even if it was in the affected model range. Plenty of owners HAVE NOT had any issues with their brakes...

I am totally convinced that if and when there is a solution to this issue, the values at this specific store would firm up and they wouldn't encourage people to go home and sell it. The manager told me there's a lot of money in used vehicles and as a profit margin, probably more in used than new, so they don't think turning away used motorhomes is in their best long-term interest, just "for their store, the best answer at this time".

He also told me that he would like to earn my business in the future but says that there are plenty of RV stores in the US and we all have the ability to buy from any dealer that we choose, and that other market conditions can come into play that change peoples perception of dealers on a day-to-day basis. He told me that manufactures will offer huge rebates or money back to the dealer on specific units, which then allows the dealer to bigger than normal discounting... but when the money's gone, so is the heavy discounting. And so he says that naturally, when people come back to purchase and they can't offer anything near to the same pricing, customers feel that the dealer is the bad guy and trying to rip-off customers. He offered that many people are predisposed to their perception of a dealer and look for reasons to justify their feelings, such as not getting enough for a trade-in or more typically, buying a used motorhome at a used motorhome price but then keep bringing it back to the dealer complaining about every little thing... in essense wanting the the dealer to make it a 'new' mtorhome and letting everyone know 'that dealer is a rip-off'... anyone who works or has worked in a service industry knows that every customer isn't right, but is the customer, so you do what you can to accomodate. I myself am not mad at the dealer; in fact, I appreciated his frankness and the reality is that I already knew of the issues, so while I played 'dumb' to the knowledge at his store, he now knows different but even then didn't give me a bad time. Like he said, he is in the RV business, to sell units and make money, not to 't' people off and lose every deal.

Bottom line is I posted an experience in (sort of) wanting to make a trade and it didn't work out; happens every day in the automobile and RV business, for a whole lot of different reasons, and that's just the way it is... I think I've covered my experience as best as I can and have been fair to the dealer... okay, I know he'll be reading this and I might still want that great deal in the future!

Not directed to your reply, but in another post in this thread, it was mentioned that this is second or third-hand information. Probably 90% of what is posted here is second or third hand information or is nothing more than someone's opinion, good, bad or indifferent. Remember the 'news' from the Rally months ago that never materialized? A Workhorse employee didn't post it here, nor has Workhorse posted any revised brake maintenance procedures, nor have they ever stated (to date) any speficic solutions; it's all conjecture at this point. Since it wasn't posted actually posted 'by Workhorse', or distributed in any manner directly related to Workhorse, it's second and third-hand information and we accepted it as being 'valid'.

And lastly, again not directed to your reply: I posted some time back about my brake issue and filed the appropriate complaint at the NHTSA website; any doubting Thomas’s here can easily look it up... that's the power of the Internet!
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