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Old 09-29-2007, 04:00 PM   #1
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We recently completed a 4273 mile trip from Belleville, IL., to Glacier NP, Fairmont Hot Springs, BC., Lake Louise, Banff and the Columbia Icefields, Jasper NP, Alberta, Canada, returning through Alberta, Saskatchewan, ND, etc... After reading the many posts here on fuel and oil consumption, oil analysis, etc., I thought our statistics may be of interest to some.

We are driving a 2005 Winnebago Adventurer 33V, on a 2004 Workhorse W20 chassis which was purchased new by us in March 2006. We pull a 2004 Honda CR-V toad. We now have just over 13,000 miles on the unit.

Trip Statistics:
Miles Driven: 4273
Gallons of Gas: 564.801
Trip Average MPG: 7.565
Overall MPG: 7.005 since purchase
Speed driven: 62-65 most of the time. Generator and A/C operating 4 full days.
Oil: Mobil 1, 5W-30 initially at 7100 miles on unit
Oil Consumption: 2 quarts in 5700 miles. Last quart added less than 600 miles before change.
Miles per added qt: 2850

I know many view Laboratory Oil Analysis as an unnecessary expense and I do not disagree; however, my curiosity got the best of me and I submitted a sample of the oil drained after 5700 miles to the Blackstone Labs. Following is their narrative report:

"Jack: Apparently the oil was hot enough when you took the sample. When the oil is stone cold, we often find traces of fuel and moisture, but we found neither here. The above-average iron and copper are from lingering wear-in. Same goes for silicon, which is from sealers and sand-casted parts. It may take a while (30-40,000 miles) for copper to come down, but it will get there eventually. The other metals have already settled down and this looks like it's going to be a nice engine. The TBN read 3.6, still active additive left. 1.0 is too low. Try 6,500-7000 miles next."

I only went 5700 miles before changing because I didn't want to change on the road do not intend to push any further than than between future changes.
Sorry about the length - just thought some would be interested.
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Old 09-29-2007, 04:00 PM   #2
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We recently completed a 4273 mile trip from Belleville, IL., to Glacier NP, Fairmont Hot Springs, BC., Lake Louise, Banff and the Columbia Icefields, Jasper NP, Alberta, Canada, returning through Alberta, Saskatchewan, ND, etc... After reading the many posts here on fuel and oil consumption, oil analysis, etc., I thought our statistics may be of interest to some.

We are driving a 2005 Winnebago Adventurer 33V, on a 2004 Workhorse W20 chassis which was purchased new by us in March 2006. We pull a 2004 Honda CR-V toad. We now have just over 13,000 miles on the unit.

Trip Statistics:
Miles Driven: 4273
Gallons of Gas: 564.801
Trip Average MPG: 7.565
Overall MPG: 7.005 since purchase
Speed driven: 62-65 most of the time. Generator and A/C operating 4 full days.
Oil: Mobil 1, 5W-30 initially at 7100 miles on unit
Oil Consumption: 2 quarts in 5700 miles. Last quart added less than 600 miles before change.
Miles per added qt: 2850

I know many view Laboratory Oil Analysis as an unnecessary expense and I do not disagree; however, my curiosity got the best of me and I submitted a sample of the oil drained after 5700 miles to the Blackstone Labs. Following is their narrative report:

"Jack: Apparently the oil was hot enough when you took the sample. When the oil is stone cold, we often find traces of fuel and moisture, but we found neither here. The above-average iron and copper are from lingering wear-in. Same goes for silicon, which is from sealers and sand-casted parts. It may take a while (30-40,000 miles) for copper to come down, but it will get there eventually. The other metals have already settled down and this looks like it's going to be a nice engine. The TBN read 3.6, still active additive left. 1.0 is too low. Try 6,500-7000 miles next."

I only went 5700 miles before changing because I didn't want to change on the road do not intend to push any further than than between future changes.
Sorry about the length - just thought some would be interested.
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Old 09-29-2007, 04:13 PM   #3
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Very nice thread Jack. I wonder, you paid for the analysis and yer not going to take their recommendations ? It appears to me that you freshend up your oil by adding those 2 qts, thats about 25% of the capacity. I would take advantage of that extra 1000+ miles, and see what they say at the next analysis. JMT
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Old 09-29-2007, 04:18 PM   #4
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Thanks for the info Jack makes me feel good changed to Mobil 1 around 7000 miles have not shown a lose of oil at oil changes every 6500-7000 miles. I now have 24,020 miles and changed trans to Mobil 1 SYN ATF. The whole combo of 8.1 and Allison and Workhorse couldn't get any better.

Some RVer's seem to wish for problems on their WH's its sad, they should have been around when you had to change manifolds and split heads on the old Ford 460's and Chev 454's.
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Old 09-29-2007, 04:53 PM   #5
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by j griff:
I know many view Laboratory Oil Analysis as an unnecessary expense and I do not disagree.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>A laboratory oil analysis is a motorhome owner's "BEST" friend. It's the ultimate proactive measure to assure that your engine continues to run at peak efficiency while clearly demonstrating the metallurgy that is in constant play every day during our ownership. I would therefore not disparage your effort one single bit and I would commend you for your clear vision in wanting to know for sure what is invisible to the average motorhome owner.

No need to apologize for the length of your post because you made an intelligent decision which achieved a goal. Thanks for sharing.

Greetings to all from the Workhorse Motorhome Club Eastern Rally at the beautiful Bethpage Camp Resort in Urbana, Virginia.
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Old 09-30-2007, 01:37 PM   #6
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Jack,
I was wondering can you give us the Blackstone readings for copper and iron?
See if we can compare notes.

I got my 1st Blackstone lab report last week and my copper & iron were high too. I have 24,884 miles on thre engine & 4,240 on the oil at the time of the sample taken.
Iron = 33 ppm Ave =13
Copper = 76 ppm Ave = 9

Comments from Blackstone:
BILL: Iron and copper both read fairly high in the first sample from this engine. Universal averages
show normal wear levels from the GM 8.1L after ~ 4,000 miles on the oil. You ran the oil a little longer than that, though not long enough to account for the excess wear. Iron is typically from steel parts, while copper is from brass and bronze bushings and bearings. Other than the wear, everything looks great. The TBN was strong at 3.6 showing a lot of active additive left. 1.0 is considered low. Suggest checking back in another 1,500 miles on this fill to keep an eye on wear.

Maybe others can chime in that have had a Blackstone test.

Thanks,
Duner
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Old 09-30-2007, 05:45 PM   #7
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Does anyone have the address to the Blackstone lab? I would like to have the test done on my rig, thanks.
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Old 09-30-2007, 06:53 PM   #8
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Jack,
I was wondering can you give us the Blackstone readings for copper and iron? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Duner - Sure glad to compare with you. Copper was 110 and Iron was 43.

One of the reasons I wanted the lab tests was that my unit sat on a dealers lot for over a year, which we all know can be the cause of many problems. I don't know if that accounts for my high readings or not, but as you can see Blackstone didn't think it a problem.
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Old 09-30-2007, 06:57 PM   #9
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Does anyone have the address to the Blackstone lab? I would like to have the test done on my rig, thanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

RattlenRam

Blackstone Labs: 416 East Pettit Ave, Fort Wayne, IN 46806.

I ordered my sampling kit from them online - their web is "BlackstoneLabs.com"
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Old 10-05-2007, 06:29 PM   #10
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I also use Blackstone labs. My last analysis was at 24,450 miles with 3,200 miles on the 10W/30 mobil 1 oil, no make-up oil (added oil).

Iron was 58
Copper was 116

The only negative comments I have received from Blackstone were for high silicon, which were noted on my first two samples (79 & 38). After changing to the S&B filter the silicon dropped to the present 13.
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Old 10-05-2007, 07:15 PM   #11
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j griff: sorry it took so long to get back, thank you for the info.
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Old 10-05-2007, 07:35 PM   #12
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Just checked my silcone, it was 14 ppm. I have the S&B air filter too. Good to know it's working well.

Seem like we're all pretty high on the iron & copper readings. I wonder how many miles it take to get those reading down to an average of 13 & 9 respectively?

DriVer, you've got over 65K miles, have your iron/copper been as low as 13/9 ppm???

Happy Trails,
Duner
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Old 10-05-2007, 08:13 PM   #13
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Send a message via ICQ to Fred and Bonnie
This is a link to Blackstone Labs.

Blackstone Lab

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Old 03-18-2008, 09:06 AM   #14
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Just got my second oil analysis report from Blackstone Labs. Here are the results from both reports.

Sample date--------------------Sample date-------------------Universal averages
03/05/08-----------------------10/07/07
Mi on MH 71,374----------------Mi on MH 68,037
Mi on oil 3,337----------------Mi on oil 4,974
Oil added 1qt------------------Oil added 1qt
Aluminum-----2-------------------------3------------------------3
Chromium-----1-------------------------1------------------------0
Iron---------24------------------------22-----------------------14
Copper-------59------------------------70-----------------------11
Lead---------8-------------------------10-----------------------13
Tin----------0-------------------------1------------------------1
Molybdenum---89------------------------73-----------------------61
Nickel-------1-------------------------1------------------------1
Manganese----1-------------------------1------------------------1
Silver-------0-------------------------0------------------------0
Titanium-----0-------------------------0------------------------0
Potasium-----0-------------------------2------------------------1
Boron--------57------------------------53-----------------------43
Silicon------7-------------------------8------------------------13
Sodium-------5-------------------------6------------------------6
Calcium------2668----------------------2918---------------------2221
Magnesium----64------------------------344----------------------69
Phosphorus---651-----------------------626----------------------720
Zinc---------863-----------------------790----------------------890
Barium-------0-------------------------0------------------------0

Properties were all within specs.
Oil used was Mobil 1 5W30 Truck & SUV, Oil Filter Mobil 1-302

Comments from Blackstone for 2nd sample:
Thomas: Copper improved nicely in this sample. Iron increased just a little,but not enough to worry about. If you hauled a caror did other heavy operation while this oil was in service that may explain the increasein iron. Regardless,we think your motorhome is wearing nicely and has no problems to speak of. Hopefully copper will improve again in the next sample. No harmful contaminants were found andthe air and oil filters are working well, too. We suggest resampling in another ~3500 miles to monitor.

I will probably do another sample in another ~3000 miles.

Tom
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