W20D questions...

[go6car]

Hi, Workhorse experts –



Hoping you can help educate me.



I’ve primarily been researching gassers for our future weekend/vacation use. However, the new diesel Thor Serrano has recently caught my eye (on the W20D chassis; MaxxForce engine) primarily due to mileage, features and price-point.



Specs that I need some help understanding here:
W20 D


I know that it doesn’t have an air-ride suspension (like the big DPs; Trip/Vesta, etc.) and that the engine is up front. What does this mean in terms of:

• Ride (Similar to a gasser since the springs, etc., used seem to be the same type used in gassers?)

• Maintenance needs and cost (same as the big DPs since it IS a diesel? Or less since it doesn't have all the same components as the large DPs do?).

Lastly, is there any way I can verify if a new unit sitting on a dealer’s lot has already had the brake recall done, or do I solely have to take their word for it?



Thanks for your patience as I try to learn about all this!

[Davel]

go6car,

I spoke with a couple at the Tampa Super Show that were every pleased with their Serrano. They had over 11,000 miles and had been from the Keys to the Pacific NW. He reported 10.5 mpg towing a Jeep and around 12 mpg solo. He was totally satsified with the handling and performance. Noise was not an issue. He does his own maintenance which is very similar to a gas coach. The Maxxforce 7 holds twice the oil and goes twice as many miles between changes. He does change the fuel filter more often, but couldn't recall the price exactly. It would be great if other Serrano owners chimed in here with their thoughts.

Good luck in your search,
DAve

[go6car]

Thanks, Dave!

There was another thread where some did chime in (and also loved the ride).

I don' t have much experience with motorized (hence the research), so I'm trying to decide if the Serrano/Workhorse front diesel would work for us as a weekender/holiday rig, or if I'm still better off with a gasser. What you've added sounds very encouraging!

Thanks for responding!

[Rapid Robert]

We just got back from a 700 mile shake down cruise in our new Serrano and thought our experience may be helpful to others. We took delivery of the unit about two weeks ago and being the person I am, I had to go over everything inside, outside and under it. This took a full week and provided me with plenty of problems to solve, one serious, some picky and some I have yet to resolve. The most serious was the X slit I found in the roof that was apparently done at the factory to install a satellite antenna that was never installed and was not repaired correctly thus had opened up to the elements. Faulty headlight bulb and rather weak headlights in my opinion. The rest pretty normal stuff on a new coach. I was disappointed to find no strainer on the inlet to the water pump therefore all the faucet screens were plugged and also the water tank drain was plugged. I added a strainer and also put a 1 1/4 inch plug in the top of the water tank to simplify sanitizing the system.
How did the coach perform? Very well, we loved it. We have had many RV's over the last 50 years from tents to pushers and this time we wanted something easy to drive, small enough to fit into our 12 ft roll up garage door yet with the amities to make us comfortable on both short weekend trips as well as longer stays in the mountains when the heat returns to Arizona. The coach is very efficient inside and out, the storage is just incredible, we could never fill it up. The food prep area is very well laid out, the entertainment center perfect as well. We added 4" of foam/memory foam to the bed and it was great. the opposing slides provide great space and on lunch stops just extending the smaller both one was perfect. The cabinets and latches were excellent and the ones on the outside storage doors with the side hinges were the best I have ever used.
The chassis: I like quiet so was worried about that. In low gear you can defiantly here the engine but by the time you get to 4th gear it has quieted down to a very pleasant level and is no louder then most sedans, just not a problem at all. Power was good and it pulled hills fine, I think better then the 330 Cat in my Gulfsteam pusher. The handling was very good but we felt the ride on these new super highway washboards was a little bit harsh at times. The thing turns a very tight corner and tracks very well. Service on the chassis looks to be very easy, everything is easy to get to. Workhorse has a 24/7 roadside service hot line on the chassis.
Would I recommend one to a friend based on what I know at this point? The answer is yes, it has so much more to offer then the sprinter B+ the mileage is still in the teens and the deals now bring them in very close price range as well.

[go6car]

This was great! Thank you for taking the time to write all this!

We initially only had new gassers on our list since this will just be something for long weekends throughout the year, but the Serrano really caught my eye. I was a bit worried that the upkeep of this diesel would be more than we'd need for just vacation use. It seems like that might be a non-issue based on what others are saying.

Got to see one in person recently and the ONLY thing I didn't like was the really small shower. That was it. Loved everything else. We really liked the 31X model. Loved the box awning too (but I don't see where we could add a shade drop to it). Also, the dealer didn't know if it had the automatic wind/rain sensor or not.

Haven't been able to ride in one, but have been told the ride is "better than a gasser; not quite as nice as a DP". I think from what people are describing, it will be fine for us. Do you feel you need to add any aftermarket stuff (springs, trac bars, etc) to improve the ride at all, or is it good to go as-is?

The only thing I'm not really clear on is how I would tell if the brake recall was already done (and also the Norcold fridge recall). Is there a fail-safe way you can tell these are done prior to purchase rather than relying on a dealers word?

Again, thanks for this real-world experience!

[edgray]

Quote:

Originally Posted by go6car This was great! Thank you for taking the time to write all this!......... The only thing I'm not really clear on is how I would tell if the brake recall was already done (and also the Norcold fridge recall). Is there a fail-safe way you can tell these are done prior to purchase rather than relying on a dealers word? Again, thanks for this real-world experience!

Yes. For the calipers, there is a production date code stamped into the caliper just below the casting number which is molded. Any number HIGHER than 0154A means you are looking at the calipers BOSCH made with the "new" design componets.

As for the Norcold recall, the recall parts kit includes a bright YELLOW label which the tech is susposed to attach to the wires going to the new control panel. You may also be able to see where the boiler tube insulation has been cut and re-taped.

IMO, you want to verify with your own eyes that these have been done before accepting delivery of any new coach. Good luck, Ed

[Rapid Robert]

The ride is fine as is, the roads at least in the southwest are in just in such bad condition with lots of potholes and little road maintenance. I did read that changing to Koni FSD shocks is an improvement but I need to research this more. This Maxxforce 7 engine is purported to be the greatest thing since peanut butter and oil changes are at 10,000 miles (it holds 18 quarts) so I am expecting very low maintenance. I will say to pick your dealer very carefully unless you like doing your own work as I do. I got a great price but my rig was delivered in poor condition and I could not get it out of their hands quick enough. The warranties are not worth much on a coach if you don't have a dealer you trust to do the work. On the other hand the chassis can be serviced at some 500 service centers around the country that I think are better trained & equiped then a lot of RV dealers.
I chose diesel because where I live almost every trip takes me up some very steep climbs and every gasser that I have had just won't pull it plus they overheat in the summer. There is no greater fear in my mind then having to pull a rig over on a steep mountain highway when it has has lost its ability to climb and it dictates when and where to have that happen & it is always in traffic (because they are backed up behind you) and there is never a safe shoulder. By the way these are supposed to get around 13 MPG. We got almost 10 on a this trip with a lot of slow winding roads, so after break in I can see that should be possible.

[max49]

Is the W-20 D pretty much the same chassis as the W-20 with the 8.1 engine?
I assume you have a diesel generator also. If the diesel and the gasser are about the same except for the engine, can I ask about how much more $ for the D ? Just a ballpark figure if you don't mind.
I'd love to have one if I could afford it

[DriVer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by max49 Is the W-20 D pretty much the same chassis as the W-20 with the 8.1 engine?

"Yes" Max, that's correct.

Quote:

I assume you have a diesel generator also. If the diesel and the gasser are about the same except for the engine, can I ask about how much more $ for the D ? Just a ballpark figure if you don't mind. I'd love to have one if I could afford it

Just for the sake of saying it, a manufacturer may install an LP generator in a chassis. The primary automotive fuel does not automatically guarantee the generator type.

LP gen sets will cost a lot less than an equivalent diesel generator and that alone maybe a determining factor as to whether the OEM wants to buy and provide a diesel gen set or not.

Now in the case of the TMC Serrano, it is equipped with an Onan 6,000 Watt diesel generator.

Now to answer your question in regard to Serrano gas vs diesel. There never was a Serrano gasoline powered motorhome. This motorhome was always designed from the ground up to be front engine, diesel powered by the Maxxforce 7 engine. The question therefore is not answerable.

It would be difficult to give a ballpark price for a W20D over a W20 chassis because that information I expect is proprietary and difficult to determine since TMC is the exclusive manufacturer using the D model. You can indeed expect that the upcharge on the MF7 engine featuring the 2010 AEGR emission package is significant.

iRV2 has been carrying the Maxxforce 7 & W20D ad here for quite some time and the claim is for MPGs to be IVO 13.2 MPG.

[go6car]

Thanks for the added feedback on the Serrano ride, etc. and also how to see if the brake and fridge recalls were done!

Incredibly helpful!!

[Easyrider]

Just curious about whether the ride with the W20-D is actually any better than the W20? I know very little about the W20-D but own a W20. The little I think I know is that the chassis is the same but with a diesel instead of a gas engine. Is the diesel sprung differently or does it have different shocks? I'm interested in knowing what changes have been made to the chassis besides the engine.

[DriVer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easyrider I'm interested in knowing what changes have been made to the chassis besides the engine.

There has not been any changes to the base W20 configuration that is used in the D model that I am aware of. It was a take what already works and put a diesel in it.

The only remarkable difference is the fuel tank. Gassers use a 75 gallon tank while the W20D as ordered by Four Winds has a 40 gallon capacity. There is a 60 gallon tank (SPID - RTR) available if the OEs want to to spec it when they buy the rail.

[COTuscany]

I know they use Bilstein shocks on the W20D Serrano. We've had ours for a year now and love it. It handles beautifully and the chassis has been no problem. Just had first service on it and everything looks great. Motor pulls good, even here in the mountains. It is noisy when starting off or pulling grade but very quiet at cruise. We run 65-70 most of the time and get about 12MPG (pulling trailer at least some of the time).

I agree that the tank is a little small, particularly out here in the west where things can be a might far apart. Another 20 gallons would really help, but we've learned to live with it.

The big deal on the Serrano is how well it handles. Feels almost sporty compared to the other things we drove. We traded from a Sprinter chassis because it rode so hard and felt like it was always right at the edge of what the chassis could handle. The Serrano feels very competent compared to that, yet still easy to drive. And on the Serrano V, the interior space is fine and the exterior storage is amazing.

At 10K miles, so far so good. We had the brake recall done (about 2 hours total) but that's been the only thing on the chassis. The coach, unfortunately, had a list of about two dozen stupid little things that the factory had screwed up. But they covered all of it. Just meant we got to know our dealer really well.

[go6car]

COSerrano -- Thanks for another owner perspective (and welcome to the forum!!)

Everyone who has one really seems to like it, which is a good thing! I was looking at the 31X (for the outside integrated TV, which is a must-have for us!). It's still on our list thanks to all the good comments! Only thing is that it might be a bit tight for when we have two adults with us. Trying to sleep them separately doesn't seem like it will work since even I couldn't fit on the dinette when it was folded down in sleep mode. Would also love to petition Thor for a larger Serrano shower somehow! Or at least a low profile one! .

I hope that with Thor's new quality control in place it will lessen all the 'annoyance' issues that you and others had with the house elements. Time will tell, but I'm still encouraged! This chassis/engine combo seems to really be a hit so far.

I"m still tossing around "better gas mileage with tighter floorplan", vs "worse mileage but with a floorplan that might be better for us". Doesn't seem to be an easy answer!

Thanks again!