WH,passing Diesels??

[lwmuddy]

This my first visit to IRV2-Looks informative too.
I drive a:
2004 Fleetwood Southwind 37A-W-22 12000 miles.
3200LB toad.

-I die on hills. On a 6% grade I'm at about 35-40MPH at 3200RPM.
-Other owners "claim" they pass diesels up hill.
-Headwinds slow me right down.
Questions:
-Are they exagerating?
-Should I run 4000 plus RPM climbing? Screeming
-Am I expecting too much from a 8.1?

Going in next Monday for LCD Odometer replacement.
Any ideas from you pro's will be greately appreciated.

[lwmuddy]

This my first visit to IRV2-Looks informative too.
I drive a:
2004 Fleetwood Southwind 37A-W-22 12000 miles.
3200LB toad.

-I die on hills. On a 6% grade I'm at about 35-40MPH at 3200RPM.
-Other owners "claim" they pass diesels up hill.
-Headwinds slow me right down.
Questions:
-Are they exagerating?
-Should I run 4000 plus RPM climbing? Screeming
-Am I expecting too much from a 8.1?

Going in next Monday for LCD Odometer replacement.
Any ideas from you pro's will be greately appreciated.

[CharlieM]

IF you are loaded like most MHs you are at your max GVWR of 22K, maybe just a smidge over. Your Toad at 3200 pounds puts you at, or real close to, your GCVWR of 26K. Performance at these extremes is going to be degraded but you should still get reasonable performance from the 8.1. Six degree is pretty steep, probably in mountains, altitude matters.

[lwmuddy]

That's been my feeling too.
So many people exagerate on forums that it is hard to compare.I drove diesels for years and know what they are capable of compared to Gas.
Except for the LCD read-out on the dash I am pleased with the 8.1.
I usually run 2300 in OD on the flats and shift down to 3200 on high overpasses. I am leary of running 4200 RPM for long. I read that at 4200 you get Max. HP, but I pissing away my $2.75 per gallon Gas then. I'll use the old back roads at 55 or less and just go slower.I'm old.

[C Driver]

First, pound for pound a gas engine will never 'beat' a diesel going up a hill, especially a 6% grade ..... all that being said 40 mph is not bad for a 6% grade towing a 3200 pound dead weight on your tail ..... I'd never run the engine at 4000+ rpm for very long, regardless of what the 'experts' say!
Check you gas mileage and keep track of it ... if it changes you may have a problem .... also have the dealer put his diagnostic computer on the engine just to check it ... hey might as well be informed in case there is some problem ....

[lwmuddy]

I'm goint to have them do the full diagnostic.
I have never been able to read the LCD to run all the different test's you can do.

So far, this forum is what I've been looking for. Nice and professional.
Thanks.

[Cruzer]

My last coach was a 2003 Suncruiser 33V on a W20 chassis with that same 8.1 engine as yours. I ran it close to the 20,700 lb GVWR and also pulled a 4,660 lb Grand Cherokee. My present coach is a 2004 Allegro Bus 40DP with a Cummins 400 engine. I run it at about 31,000 lbs loaded (32K GVWR) with the same toad behind it. The gasser had 340 HP at 4,200 RPM and 455 ft-lbs of torque. The diesel has 400 HP at 2,100 RPM and 1,200 ft-lbs of torque. I've run both coaches in identical situations so I can probably compare them for you.

First, on the straight and level highways, there isn't much difference. Gasoline engines always develop horsepower at higher RPMs because they don't have that much torque (Torque time RPM divided by 5252 = Horsepower) while diesels have more torque and the power comes in at lower RPMs. When you get to a slight hill the gasser will kick out of 5th gear and drop to 4th. This gets the revs higher and you climb the slight grade easily. The diesel also runs up the same grade, but it just doesn't need to get out of 6th gear when doing it.

When traveling through Chicago's toll booths I noticed that the gasser would rocket away from the toll booths, passing heavy trucks and many DPs with ease. But, this was flatland stuff and the gasser only weighed 20,000 lbs. I now find that my 400 ISL also accelerates fairly equal in those same conditions but now I have a much more powerful diesel engine lugging 31,000 lbs. If I had a 330 HP Cat in my coach, the gasser would win out.

The real test is on the mountain grades. I've climbed twisty mountain roads up to 11,000' with both coaches. There is no comparison. The 8.1 gasser will get you there but you're not going to set any speed records . The superior torque of the diesel just pulls you right on up to the top. On interstate grades (I-70 west of Denver - 6% grades that last "forever") the gasser will be in the far right lane moving slowly with it's 4 way flashers on. The 400 Cummins will pull right on through.

If you are comparing this to an older DP with a 275 HP Cummins I can see where the Vortec in a lighter coach will have the edge. They'll all get you there. It's just a matter of how much you want to pay for how much "faster" you need.

[Gary RVRoamer]

I'm one of those who has passed diesels, but I was talking about trucks pulling long uphill grades. I never menat to imply you would fly past every diesel on the road.

What are your weights? Your 37 footer has no doubt maxxed the W22 chassis capability. I'd say your performance is about what I would expect, given the load. You can run around the 4000 RPM mark for awhile and get your hill speed up to 45-50, but what's the hurry? Keeping the RPMs down is easier on the ears as well as engine wear.

If you really feel bad about your hill climbing capability, you are going to want to trade for a diesel chassis - and a powerful one too. But even there you will be running at high RPMs (high for a diesel, that is) on 6% grades when loaded to the GCWR. It's just that the noise will be behind you and you won't be bothered by it!

[lwmuddy]

RV Roamer
Now I understand your passing diesel Trucks. That I understand.
I feel much better now that I am doing the best I can given the weight and available power.
I looks like this will have to be our only RV as far as fulltiming.
With the price of a diesel RV combined with the rising prices [with no end in sight] of fuel it's too costly.
It will remain fun untill we can't afford it any more, then it's into a nice retirement apartment to await the grim Reaper. What a cheery fellow I am today.
Many thanks to all, and please drive safely.
If you can't then "Do it to them first".
Toodles.

[rvr2352]

Lee Petty (Richard's Dad) had a sign on his garage: "Money buys speed, how fast do YOU want to go?" Steve

[Stan Birch]

If you want yer rig to run like a Ford; then you have to buy a Ford!!

[max49]

I was diasappoited too since I live in Co. I always heard how much power the 8.1 has. My MH is a 18,000 capacity and I still need 1st gear over all the mtn passes and about 4000rpm.
I test drove a 2006 Ford with the 5 speed tranny, it was on flat ground with an empty 32' Hurricane. That engine was quiet and seemed like a muscle engine. The tranny acted like a truck tranny too, not soft. Still don't like the doghouse and actually the whole cockpit area is 2 or 3" s above the house part too. Don't know why except the whole thing is higher w more ground clearance than the Workhorse. If I buy a new gasser it will be the new Ford

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by max49:
I was disappointed too since I live in Co. I always heard how much power the 8.1 has. My MH is a 18,000 capacity and I still need 1st gear over all the mtn passes and about 4000rpm. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>An 18K Workhorse is equipped with the GM 4L85E 4 speed automatic transmission. Now given the price of the coach and the performance of the engine with this transmission your motorhome should do well under most operating conditions.

If your Workhorse motorhome were the higher GVW W-Series you would have gotten an Allison transmission with much the same technology as 90% or more of the other rear diesel pusher motorhomes on the road today. None of these have a Ford transmission. None of the heavier Ford trucks have Ford transmissions

Workhorse has now released a new version of the Allison T1000 and 2100Mh with "six-speeds". Now you can get a touch pad shifting six speed Allison just like the big guys.

The benefit of the six speed is the double overdrive. This means that there are 2 gears that are less than the 1 to 1 you have in 4th gear. This will directly benefit the Workhorse owner in these challenging times with out of pocket fuel expenses.

Perhaps the Ford engine seemed quiet on flat ground however when it stars delivering its horsepower at 4750 rpm you certainly would be the first person to know it. The 8.1 does all its work at 4200 rpm.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Don't know why except the whole thing is higher w more ground clearance than the Workhorse. If I buy a new gasser it will be the new Ford </div></BLOCKQUOTE>If you were to consider buying a W-Series Workhorse you would also get 22.5 inch tires. That's where the Ford got its ground clearance from. 22.5" tires have always been standard equipment on W-Series motorhomes, improved ground clearance included at no extra charge.

When you do trade in your motorhome I wish you well with your decision.

About performance, I run a W22 at or near both its GVW & GCWR. I have been out west running the mountain passes in Montana, Wyoming, Utah, and Nevada with a continued appreciation for my motorhome. Grant it that there was one time that I was brought down to 28 mph in 2nd gear but I made progress up the grade and was able to climb. I never hit 1st gear on a climb because I verified that by manually shifting to first and I was pulling too many revs so I had to shift to 2nd. This event happed on route 160 from Las Vegas to Pahrump, NV. On the return trip the wife drove the toad and I was able to climb the same grade at speeds of no less than 50 mph. I came down the other side in 3rd gear at or near the speed limit only having to tap on the brakes occasionally when it got too close to 70 mph.

On 6% grades I was able to climb with the car in tow at about 45 mph. On grades any less than that I can normally maintain 55 mph. One 1% to 2% grades I can pull those in 5th gear. 2nd gear usually accelerates going up a 3% to 4% grade with a shift to 3rd only if the tach gets down to 3000 rpm and then I'm still accelerating.

The new Allison 6 speed won't change the climbing ability however when you're driving across the majority of Wyoming into Nebraska and east the 6 speed should shine.

Addressing mountain climbing the "new" Workhorse SSC option will do a much better job with its custom headers and exhaust system. On the other side of the mountain you certainly will appreciate "Transmission Grade Braking" which is standard in all W20 to W24 chassis in 2006. Couple this performance with the W24s quad piston hydraulic disk brakes and you certainly will appreciate that not only can you climb sure footed but coming to a safe controlled stop is going to be like stopping on a dime and getting back change.

[lwmuddy]

Ah yes, if I had only known that Fleetwood saved money buy building mine without:
&gt;22.5 tires
&gt;Key pad Shift Control
and that Silly Little steering wheel that feels like the one in those kids pedal cars.

Are all the workhorse steering systems so TOUCHY?
If I twitch I head for the other lane [at 65mph] Like driving a Porsch.