Wires and air flow

[RVsteve]

I have a 2006 34' Winnebago Adventurer and tow a Jeep Wrangler.

I assume my problems have been the result of all the mountains grades I have to climb to travel in and out of Southern California. My favorite destinations are Colorado, Idaho, and the Sierras, which all require multiple long hot climbs. The climb from Phoenix to Flagstaff is especially troublesome. However, no one warned me at the time of purchase that I should only drive my coach on flat ground.

Re: Dale's comment - It does me no good to "blame" anyone. When I'm sputtering up a grade at 15 mph with a line of irritated drivers behind me, it makes no difference to me who caused the problem. I just want to find a reliable solution to the problem so I can trust and enjoy my coach. However, I do think that Winnebago and Workhorse should have consulted each other on this design before putting it on the market.

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RVsteve:
However, I do think that Winnebago and Workhorse should have consulted each other on this design before putting it on the market. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>RVsteve, I think you're just firing off "blame ammunition" at anyone in sight. Winnebago Industries and Workhorse work at every level possible to assure that their products perform as expected.

No one is suggesting that you run your motorhome straight and level. My only purpose was to share with you that under certain highway conditions the engine does not achieve enough heat to allow a wire to fail. Workhorse can not dictate to any manufacturer how they should build their coach bodies however they do offer engineering minimums which the OEMs are expected to comply with.

Since you are now equipped with the cold air vent kit why not run with that for the moment and let us know how that worked for you. If you get a repeat failure then we can go back to the blame thing or revisit how the kit was installed.

I'm sure that Workhorse will work with you in resolving any issues that may subsequently occur however I am confident that the current fix will perform as expected.

[BellaBo]

Here is a direct quote from Workhorse regarding the cooling kit. I would think anyone who runs continuously in the mountains would have need of this regardless of model.

"The engines on some coaches receive a lot of airflow, others not as much. If you feel the doghouse* of your coach is running hot, this kit is for you. All engines need air and a cool breeze to operate at peak efficiency - especially those used mostly in hot climates or in the summer. This racing-style air-ducting kit brings air to your engine directly where it is needed most to help keep your engine bay cool and your motor running smoothly.

*Believe it or not, this is the one of the technical terms for the compartment in which your engine resides. On a Workhorse, we call it the "stable". "

[rvjer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RVsteve:
I assume my problems have been the result of all the mountains grades I have to climb to travel in and out of Southern California. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I also travel the mountains in the west all summer long and have never had a problem with plugs, wires or overheating. We travel up and down Hwy. 395 from Southern Ca. to Reno, Nv. many times and all through the Sierras and the Cascades sometimes in triple digit temps. And have never felt any excessive heat from the "doghouse". Granted I don't have a Winnebago product but I know and travel with friends that do and they also have not had problems.

[max49]

Burning spark plug wires and air flow is hard to understand considering that I've never heard of burning plug wires on the 8.1 in a boat engine. by the nature of the beast, the engine in a boat is designed to be protected from water and is in fact almost below water level, so it has to be water tight and almost air tight. Altho there is a bilge blower, it is normaly only used before you start the engine to extract any fuel fumes that may be present.
Since I can see the SP 's and wires wide open in the wheel well, I don't understand how air flow can be the problem.
If air flow is the problem on a front engine MH, I wonder what the fix will be for the rear engine UFO?
So far , I have'nt heard of any problem with burning wires on the UFO but then, I have'nt heard from anyone who owns one either.

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by max49:
I've never heard of burning plug wires on the 8.1 in a boat engine. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Max,
Boats don't climb mountains.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Since I can see the SP 's and wires wide open in the wheel well, I don't understand how air flow can be the problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Therefore you are telling us that you do not have plug wire failures.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If air flow is the problem on a front engine MH, I wonder what the fix will be for the rear engine UFO? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Max - You ol' looking under the rock type of guy for any bit of trouble..... About the UFO let me say this.... (again)

First of all spark plug wires do not directly fail because of air flow issues. Even if you can see all the plugs and wires on a front gas chassis there is no guarantee of performance. The rubber fabric that we all have on the front of our motorhomes diverts the air flow through the cool pack and "this" more than anything cools the engine. In most cases a cool engine won't fry out plug wires. When my motorhome climbs grades I can actually watch the coolant temperature drop on my ScanGauge II.

The vent kit that we have seen installed to resolve wire issues only has to provide a few degrees of cooling at a specific point which is sufficient enough to bring the temperature below the failure threshold.

The UFO has a totally new cool pack design and by engineering this vehicle in the most extreme climates (Death Valley) and monitoring temperatures with thermal sensors positioned densely in and around the engine and drivetrain it was initially found that the engine was not getting hot enough. I spoke about this before several times but you keep coming back to the UFO cooling and plug wires.

Engineering found that they had to reduce the size of the cool pack in order for the engine to achieve an acceptable heating level so the emission control devices would work properly.

There should not be any concern regarding plug wires on the UFO chassis what so ever. When you buy one let us know how that all works out.

[RVsteve]

I had exactly the same question. There is plenty of open air space around the sides of the engine, but apparently in the Winnebago/W22 configuration there is not enough AIR FLOW across the engine because the front of the engine compartment is "dammed" to induce air flow across the radiator. The result is that the internal engine temp is normal, but the exterior temp is extreme. I guess the heat builds up under the engine cover especially when climbing at slower speeds. I assume some design engineer had the same impression about there being enough air space to prevent over-heating. Too bad he was wrong.

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RVsteve:
I had exactly the same question. There is plenty of open air space around the sides of the engine, but apparently in the Winnebago/W22 configuration there is not enough AIR FLOW across the engine because the front of the engine compartment is "dammed" to induce air flow across the radiator. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>The airflow actually has to be allowed to flow through the radiator and not across it. I have a Winnebago/W22 a 38 footer. Which model do you have - understand it's a 34 footer?<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I assume some design engineer had the same impression about there being enough air space to prevent over-heating. Too bad he was wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>If you are assuming that an engineer was wrong in designing the coach how therefore can you be so sure the design is wrong when my coach and many other owners here do not exhibit overheat conditions? After all we do share the same engineering resources.

[max49]

Driver, boats don't climb mountains but they never coast and work all the time. That's why they don't need brakes.
I don't have the burnt wires like some have, as I already said but maybe you did'nt read or forgot. I burn't one plug wire in So. Ca putzing up and down the Pacific Coast hwy in Jan. Never climbing mountains.
You can hope for what you want, but why did'nt WH test out the W-22, P-32, W-24 on different coaches before releasing like you say they did with the UFO. We won't know of any UFO problems til someone buys one and posts on his ownership experience, and you know it. WH is not going to tell us. So how do they keep it SO Cool in the back but they can't in the front? Hmmm, air conditioned engine compartment or swamp cooler?
And by the way, since some of the new WH's come with a parking pawl, they must still have a parking brake , don't they? Can you tell us about this? Does every body apply it the same way?
I won't be the guinea Pig to buy a UFO, I doubt if I would have bought anything with Autopark if I would have known about this forum before I purchased. I'm surprised WH has'nt given you one so you could post glowing reviews of it.
I've been patiently waiting for someone here , from the forum to buy one but I never would have thought it would take so long. It does'nt appear that the UFO will be dominating the RV industry any time soon. It's amazing no one here or even RV.net has bought one yet. If I'm wrong please post a link to their message.
Usually there are lots of people who want 'the latest and greatest' and newest model of something.

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by max49:
You can hope for what you want, but why didn't WH test out the W-22, P-32, W-24 on different coaches before releasing like you say they did with the UFO. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Max, So your suggesting that Workhorse buy 675 coaches in order to test their chassis? <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">So how do they keep it SO Cool in the back but they can't in the front? Hmmm, air conditioned engine compartment or swamp cooler? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Max, There you go again. Perhaps you missed the post where I wrote that Workhorse has introduced a new front engine cool pack.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> And by the way, since some of the new WH's come with a parking pawl, they must still have a parking brake , don't they? Can you tell us about this? Does every body apply it the same way? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Max - Again you're missing the point. Having a parking pawl which is totally rated to hold the full GCWR of the vehicle can be applied by my grand mother. The mechanical foot brake at this point is secondary and can be applied in any quantity that suits the operator.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I'm surprised WH hasn't given you one so you could post glowing reviews of it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I have driven 3 different brands of UFO powered coaches. What would you like to know. <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It doesn't appear that the UFO will be dominating the RV industry any time soon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Max, When was the last time you were in Union City? I not lying but there is a field full of UFOs just waiting to ship. One other OEM has announced that they are building on UFO and there will be more.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> It's amazing no one here or even RV.net has bought one yet. If I'm wrong please post a link to their message.
Usually there are lots of people who want 'the latest and greatest' and newest model of something. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Max - We can lead them to water but we can't make them post.

[Tom N]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DriVer:
Having a parking pawl which is totally rated to hold the full GCWR of the vehicle can be applied by my grand mother. The mechanical foot brake at this point is secondary and can be applied in any quantity that suits the operator. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are you saying the new W24 & W25.5 come with a foot applied parking brake?? Does the foot parking brake apply the rear disks with cables?? Does Workhorse have anything online concerning this?? When was this change over??

-Tom

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom N:
Are you saying the new W24 & W25.5 come with a foot applied parking brake?? Does the foot parking brake apply the rear disks with cables?? Does Workhorse have anything online concerning this?? When was this change over?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Tom, Yes they do come with foot applied parking brakes. I wrote about this several times - I regret that you missed it.

The brake unit is similar to the W22 cable and driveline drum setup. I don't think they will have something on line yet since it's a recent development. Not even the new brochures show this as of right now but in the next printing I'm thinking it might be listed. The new brochures show the 100,000 mile 5 year powertrain warranty on the cover.

[max49]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">quote:
It's amazing no one here or even RV.net has bought one yet. If I'm wrong please post a link to their message.
Usually there are lots of people who want 'the latest and greatest' and newest model of something.
Max - We can lead them to water but we can't make them post. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

True, but there are hundreds of members of these forums who like to participate and post on different forums and apparently none of them has bought the UFO, even tho it seemed pretty much unanimous that every body liked their test drive; but, apparently, not enough to buy one.
When people buy , own and drive one for a year, then it will get tested.

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by max49:
.... even tho it seemed pretty much unanimous that every body liked their test drive; but, apparently, not enough to buy one.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Max, What that tells me and please feel free to check with a lot of other people but the answer is obvious. Mom has to love the floorplan first. Dad gets to buy his UFO when Mom is happy.