Workhorse dash and brake problems

[hawg6]

Just some issues is an understatement. Workhorse needs to put pressure on their "not" low bid vendors to make things right. I'm on my second dash panel and it is starting to lose pixels and have had one caliper lock-up in 23,400 miles. Being a 2004 it is out of warranty, so what do you do? There is no rhyme or reason for the vendors not fixing the latent defects in their products. I agree with the cost factor being an issue, but the parts and components used in the chassis should work without premature failure. Some components can not be upgraded and/or replaced with a reliable component without the original manufacturer furnishing the parts ie. the Actia dash and the Bosch brakes. Both vendors have had sufficient time to rectify the problems with their products. To say these are not Workhorse problems and Workhorse should not be responsible for getting to timely resolution is wrong. Spending money to improve the saftey and performance of our MH's is a choice each owner has, but making the parts and/or components available to fix latent defects, particularly where safety is an issue, is the responsibility of Workhorse. This where Workhorse has put many of their customers between a rock and a hard spot, particularly with the brake issue. Who wants to drive a Workhorse chassis knowing a brake failure is almost guaranteed. Hope Workhouse is monitoring this site as they do not respond to emails.

[hawg6]

Just some issues is an understatement. Workhorse needs to put pressure on their "not" low bid vendors to make things right. I'm on my second dash panel and it is starting to lose pixels and have had one caliper lock-up in 23,400 miles. Being a 2004 it is out of warranty, so what do you do? There is no rhyme or reason for the vendors not fixing the latent defects in their products. I agree with the cost factor being an issue, but the parts and components used in the chassis should work without premature failure. Some components can not be upgraded and/or replaced with a reliable component without the original manufacturer furnishing the parts ie. the Actia dash and the Bosch brakes. Both vendors have had sufficient time to rectify the problems with their products. To say these are not Workhorse problems and Workhorse should not be responsible for getting to timely resolution is wrong. Spending money to improve the saftey and performance of our MH's is a choice each owner has, but making the parts and/or components available to fix latent defects, particularly where safety is an issue, is the responsibility of Workhorse. This where Workhorse has put many of their customers between a rock and a hard spot, particularly with the brake issue. Who wants to drive a Workhorse chassis knowing a brake failure is almost guaranteed. Hope Workhouse is monitoring this site as they do not respond to emails.

[Bob (WA0MQE)]

I agree with you hawg6... Workhorse is new in the chassis business, at least compared to other companies, meaning it takes time to work out bugs. But to me they've not taken the necessary steps to remedy the situation. This is why I'll never purchase another Workhorse Chassis product. This is why you don't see too many manufacturer's using their original R-Series Diesel chassis, and why I think the UFO will take the same road to oblivion.

I'm not sure if I'll ever purchase another motorhome, but if I do it will be something on a Freightliner, Spartan or Roadmaster Chassis.

[cannon man]

AMEN to that! too many ongoing problems.

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by cannon man:
AMEN to that! too many on going problems. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Is that too or two ongoing problems? If it's more than two could you please elaborate. I'm sure that as a vehicle chassis manufacturer Workhorse does better that the average vehicle producer.

How many issues have you had or are you having with your 2007 chassis which is still under warranty?

[hawg6]

It is not the number of problems youhave or had , it matters how Workhorse addresses the problems and helps their customer keep their motorhomes safe. The fact that they have introduced new chassis and improved these does not help if you have an older chassis with problems that have not been resolved. Again I hope Workhorse is monitoring this site and will step-up with assistance to get the dash and brake problems fixed. Or at least apprise us of a tentative date for a fix to allow us to plan our travels.

[dieselclacker]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by hawg6:
It is not the number of problems you have or had , it matters how Workhorse addresses the problems and helps their customer keep thier motorhomes safe.






Dieselclacker

[edgray]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">......but if I do it will be something on a Freightliner, Spartan or Roadmaster Chassis. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since you've apparently ruled out any gas powered chassis, don't forget to include the Powerglide from Tiffin in your list of DPs. ED

[hawg6]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by edgray:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">......but if I do it will be something on a Freightliner, Spartan or Roadmaster Chassis. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since you've apparently ruled out any gas powered chassis, don't forget to include the Powerglide from Tiffin in your list of DPs. ED </div></BLOCKQUOTE>As ambassadors for Workhorse I would think you and Driver would endeavor to have Workhorse become active in this site and address the real concerns with the 2002-2004 chassis. Tom and Marie just posted under another heading that the Workhorse rep. stated the brake problem was Bosch's, not a Workhorse problem. This posture seems to be universal from Workhorse Custom Chassis to it's Service Centers. It is ashame that Workhorse has not been proactive in supporting it's customers on the dash and brake problems. Rather than being sympathetic and joining us to resolve the problems they choose to have the ambassadors promote new product offerings and offer lame justifications for not fixing our motorhomes. It is obvious Workhorse is not concerned with repeat customers. They can design and offer two new chassis', but can't, or won't, fix the dash and brake problems on the existing 2002-2004 chassis. It is hard to stay positive about a company that is not concerned their existing customers safety. Time to admit you are involved in this mess and our problems are also your problems and then trickle down to your vendors.

[DriVer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hawg6: </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You point is taken and I am not going to get in to a back and forth match regarding what Workhorse will or won't do.

I do know that Workhorse has completely honored their warranty obligations with me and I have had my IP replaced under those terms. I never had a brake problem under warranty so I was not able to test that part. My current IP is working just fine.

For all the new cars that I have bought during my lifetime each has had a new car warranty. When that warranty expired and if I had a problem with my vehicle after the warranty period, I have been obliged to pay out of pocket however there have been "Good Will" after warranty repairs on my cars. Workhorse has also accomplished a number of Good Will repairs that I'm aware of as well. I have spoken to a great number of owners who have had repairs of this nature accomplished on their motorhomes. The assertion that Workhorse does not care about its customers is not entirely accurate.

My recent brake job on my motorhome was no exception. I had the motorhome repaired at Larry's Auto Clinic here on the beach and it was 4 -- rotors, sets of pads, calipers and later ABS sensors. This is a 2003 motorhome in for a full brake job in 2008 at 70+K miles. - 3 years out of warranty. I was indeed billed for the repairs.

We can grouse this issue to death however until the letters are in the mail there is little we can do except conjecture and banter. I can no longer offer the remedy that was heard by a great number of owners recently any further. It was stated clearly that Workhorse is not hiding behind a rock regarding these issues and as soon as a clear course is charted everyone will know at the same time how these issues will be resolved.

Please do not remove from consideration that both the supplier and government are also involved in this matter. The supplier will eventually have to assume the majority of the financial burden by making available a redesigned component that resolves the problem. In this matter the government will play no small part in detailing the scope of the vehicles that are so affected by the campaign. I expect that like the past campaign the Workhorse affected vehicles only comprise a small fraction of the total installed base of the equipment that was provided to the vehicle and chassis industry.

PS: Your comment that my writing "offer(s) lame justifications" is quite innovative and unique. I don't believe that I have seen this type or level of rancor in all 17,275 posts that I offered here in support of iRV2.com members.

I would not dishonor your concerns out of hand by suggesting your writings were anything but genuine and honorable. I would expect the same consideration.

[hawg6]

I appreciate all you have done to better our Motorhome experience. I stated early on that I've followed your lead and can say you have been a true asset byp sharing your knowledge. Between you and Brazels I've been able to make the motorhome perform and handle way beyond the as purchased performance. I also have stated I felt Workhorse has put the ambassadors between a rock and a hard spot on these two issues, as I assume the input for your responses is based on information offered or suggested by Workhorse. My issue is with Workhorse and the service center I've dealt with. I'm not looking for specifically looking for warranty, only a fix. If the brake issue is in fact a latent defect, I would assume that Bosch would belly-up and make the brakes safe, but if not they still must be fixed. Keep-up the good work, but don't let Workhorse off the hook. You have helped to make it work in the past. Thanks!

[edgray]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I also have stated I felt Workhorse has put the ambassadors between a rock and a hard spot on these two issues, as I assume the input for your responses is based on information offered or suggested by Workhorse. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
hawg6: Sorry, but I just can't let your statement quoted above go unchallenged.

I can't find where you stated, as you claim, about ambassadors being between a rock and a hard place. I did find your opinion about customers being in that position, and you have every right to that opinion.

BUT, I really resent and take exception to your "assumtion", as stated above, that the Ambassadors responses here are somehow "offerred or suggested by Workhorse".

There is a dis-claimer published at the top of this forum. I suggest you read it. I am also telling you and anybody else here that cares to read it, that I have NEVER had any "suggestions" or other instruction given to me by ANYONE at Workhorse regarding the opinions I have expressed here. If anything, the opposite is true. I get little, if any, input from the company, especially regarding maintainence or service issues. Perhaps that is because the Ambassadors are "work" under the MARKETING department, and have only a passing aquaintance with the service side of the business. You can believe it or not, I really don't care.

As for the Actia instrument cluster, I know for a fact that WCC has helped many owners get this equipment replaced out of warranty. That is why I have consistently posted that owners should contact WCC first and "ask" for help in getting their units replaced. I do not know if there has been a change in "policy" at WCC regarding the replacements, but I remain a believer that WCC will "assist" in getting these problematic units replaced at relatively low cost to an owner who is out of warranty. It amazes me that so many of our members here think that WCC should continue to eat warranty expenses long after the 36 mo /36,000 mi warranty has expired. Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Toyota-you name it- do not "extend" their warranties, but yet WCC should. Give me a break.

Until now, I have pretty much stayed out of the ongoing brake issue. Primarily because I don't have anything positive to say about the entire issue. I do not defend WCC when I say, IMO, that the problem is with the Bosch design of the caliper piston which "causes" the pads to remain in contact with the rotor. This "hanging up" of the brake(s) generates heat which only exercabates the problem. To add my opinion that owners add to the problem by continuing to drive even after they become aware that there "might" be a problem , only invites criticism of me as a defender of WCC-which I am not. I believe that if owners would accept the fact that over-heated brakes can be allowed to cool off and then subsequently be used without further trouble, we would read a lot less about "failures". We read plenty of posts claiming failure, but very few who bother to explain exactly what happened. I'm even more amazed at the posts here stating they had to be towed by a wrecker because of brake failure. Really, was it necessary because they had NO brakes- I doubt it. The LAST place I want MY motorhome is on a hook. So far, 78,000+ miles I've never needed one.

Frankly, I am very disappointed that WCC, and apparently even NHTSA, have had little result in getting Bosch to admit the problem and put forth a plan to remedy the situation. I read where "they" said an announcement was coming "any day now", but still nothing from anybody. Somehow this is ALL the fault of WCC.
Again, give me a break.

Well, I've about ranted myself out for today. ED

[Ringpinger]

I know if honda has a problem. They extend the warr on that part. Sometimes 80k -150k Frank

[max49]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It amazes me that so many of our members here think that WCC should continue to eat warranty expenses long after the 36 mo /36,000 mi warranty has expired. Chevy, Ford, Dodge, Toyota-you name it- do not "extend" their warranties, but yet WCC should. Give me a break. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The difference is the odometer and the rest of the IP never goes out on any other vehicle. If it did, they'd have to pay for a rental vehicle while Actia sent them another one, and it would be all over the news.
Every other vehicle recall that I've ever heard of was a 'voluntary mfgr. recall', they never make the government tell them what to do to make it right. No wonder the brake issue is taking so long, if WH & Bosch say they don't know how to fix it and are depending on the gov to tell them what to do.