|
|
05-13-2012, 09:29 AM
|
#29
|
Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,363
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by mfire1339
weathertodd, Those manifolds on your LaPalma.
Mike
|
??? I have thorley headers on mine Unless you are asking if you can have them? Then the answer is yes.
|
|
|
|
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
05-13-2012, 09:41 AM
|
#30
|
Moderator Emeritus
Winnebago Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner Coastal Campers Carolina Campers
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Conway, SC
Posts: 23,641
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by oemtech
I talking about total shut down.... mark my words.
|
It's not totally unexpected. Navistar is such a large organization that they can probably absorb all the daily tasks that a Workhorse would accomplish, retire the name and continue to produce under another name or brand the chassis as a Navistar. A rose would still smell as sweet regardless of its name.
Quote:
TAC and UPS.... Yea, I bet they do get help. But, how about the RVer's?
|
The RV business has only made small movements toward recovery in motorized units. For Navistar to make a major investment in a custom chassis company for the RV industry right now would probably yield little if any return. (unprofitable) Towables on the other hand are doing much better. Any RVs that are currently under warranty as far as I know and I have been checking, are being supported.
I would expect that UPS gets all the parts they need. UPS has thousands of vehicles that are going to continue needing parts and service so that side of the business shouldn't charge dramatically. It may yet become absorbed into the Navistar parts and service organization however when or if they are ready to do that. The transition I expect will be seamless. UPS already is a big customer since they buy Navistar straight jobs and tractors
Quote:
I am seeing a lot more non bread truck chassis in the Fed Ex fleet, service and various delivery type company's.
|
Each vehicle is purposed. From South Carolina, the Sprinter is manufactured Charleston and that platform is increasingly popular with the RV and commercial segments. The bread trucks are much bigger carriers of packages PLUS the driver can stand up in the vehicle without hitting his head. There's value in that type of body configuration. That said, Workhorse did not make the bodies but the chassis adapts well to other commercial body builders.
Quote:
Parts/Service ???? You should hear some of the phone calls I get and read a few of my emails.
|
Proprietary parts are going to be slow coming regardless of who the manufacturer is. For example on some FCCC units there were hydraulic pumps for the slideout and jacks mechanism that are no longer domestically available and we're talking about a 2005 vehicle. These situations are NOT going to be unique to Workhorse. In any business, some service centers are going to be stellar and without reproach while some others are just going to fail miserably. This is the business model that Workhorse pursued early into its creation and it was hoped that Workhorse RV owners could get one stop shopping for both body and chassis but for all the wishing it didn't work out.
Small shops might do exceptionally well on chassis and power train work however they have no interest in changing refrigerators. Large 80 bay dealerships may also not want to pursue powertrain repairs. It all depends on which business each can be profitable at. It doesn't take a diving rod to find out that some are good and some bad - it can happen on any given day.
__________________
03 Adventurer 38G, Workhorse W22
F&R Track Bars, Safety+ , Ultrapower, Taylor Extremes, SGII
TST 507, Blue Ox, SMI, Koni FSD, CrossFire
RV/MH Hall of Fame - Lifetime Member
|
|
|
05-13-2012, 09:42 AM
|
#31
|
Senior Member
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Surprise Arizona
Posts: 1,994
|
I was hoping for a definitive answer, not predictions.
Thanks anyway.
__________________
Harold & Linda
2009 CT coachworks siena 35V
W22 Workhorse 8.1L. Explorer Sport toad,
|
|
|
05-13-2012, 09:49 AM
|
#32
|
Moderator Emeritus
Winnebago Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner Coastal Campers Carolina Campers
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Conway, SC
Posts: 23,641
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by az bound
I was hoping for a definitive answer, not predictions.
|
az bound, To the best of my knowledge the answer that you are looking for is "Yes!" However definitive would suggest that someone has complete insider information which is not the case. Everything that I have come to know was 2nd or 3rd party information but if an 8 ball can be definitive, I gave it a good shake and this is what came up in the window.
The plant is closed and people that were friends of iRV2 no longer have jobs. Workhorse was a sponsor here since January 2004 and while this site was in its initial growth phase, theirs and other OE support was appreciated. Workhorse also supported a great many National Rallies, by providing financial support and other tangible items.
The Workhorse Forum maintained the #2 spot here for many years however it has fallen to the #3 spot in recent weeks.
The "ONLY" reason why all of this transpired is because GM stopped shipping the 8.1L Vortec and since that last engine came off the line what we all see was not unexpected.
__________________
03 Adventurer 38G, Workhorse W22
F&R Track Bars, Safety+ , Ultrapower, Taylor Extremes, SGII
TST 507, Blue Ox, SMI, Koni FSD, CrossFire
RV/MH Hall of Fame - Lifetime Member
|
|
|
05-13-2012, 09:52 AM
|
#33
|
Senior Member
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Surprise Arizona
Posts: 1,994
|
Sounds reasonable, thank you.
__________________
Harold & Linda
2009 CT coachworks siena 35V
W22 Workhorse 8.1L. Explorer Sport toad,
|
|
|
05-13-2012, 10:24 AM
|
#34
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Tavares, FL
Posts: 1,652
|
As dealers and individuals continue to not want to deal with Work Horse rigs, their value is depreciating quicker than other RV's. The reasons people do not want them is their bad reputation of from the poor service to people who had trouble with the old design calipers. The fact that we now own orphan rigs only makes this worse. There are many folks who would not buy a Work Horse product and that reduces the value. Present owners are the ones holding the bag. This of course is in direct contradiction to what was being touted on this board, but your Work Horse has less value than a similar rig with a different chassis. We are suffering from Work Horse inflicted wounds. Those continuing to deny this are continuing to deny the obvious. Fool me one is your fault; fool me twice is my fault.
|
|
|
05-13-2012, 10:55 AM
|
#35
|
Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,363
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindsay Richards
As dealers and individuals continue to not want to deal with Work Horse rigs, their value is depreciating quicker than other RV's. The reasons people do not want them is their bad reputation of from the poor service to people who had trouble with the old design calipers. The fact that we now own orphan rigs only makes this worse. There are many folks who would not buy a Work Horse product and that reduces the value. Present owners are the ones holding the bag. This of course is in direct contradiction to what was being touted on this board, but your Work Horse has less value than a similar rig with a different chassis. We are suffering from Work Horse inflicted wounds. Those continuing to deny this are continuing to deny the obvious. Fool me one is your fault; fool me twice is my fault.
|
Your post is completely subjective and offers absolutely NO facts to support your position. I
I say this as a consumer that HAD a choice to buy whatever rig I desired. The F53 chassis did not impress me in the least in the gasser arena. Being as they are the only player left in the new "gas" market since 2009... I would dig alil deeper and buy a used diesel before a new F53 chassis. If the F53 were the only chassis ever offered in the history of gas powered RVs... Id be rocking a towable of some kind. You can deduce from that statement F53 rigs are worthless to me... yet many still get sold and will continue too. Using "sales jargon" to convince us is laughable and only indicative of your ignorance of the real issue.
I cant help that the RV industry customers tend to accept "lesser" expectations of service. Your only recourse in reality is to choose a reputable vendor with extensive knowledge of the WH chassis. How you determine that is up to your own research. This forum has a pretty good knowledge base and the gist of it is... alil preventative maintence will go along way with the brake calipers. Otherwise you have a platform equipped with THE best transmission ever installed in a gas rig, a monster motor that provides unmatched power.
|
|
|
05-13-2012, 02:43 PM
|
#36
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Portage, MI
Posts: 466
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lindsay Richards
As dealers and individuals continue to not want to deal with Work Horse rigs, their value is depreciating quicker than other RV's. The reasons people do not want them is their bad reputation of from the poor service to people who had trouble with the old design calipers. The fact that we now own orphan rigs only makes this worse. There are many folks who would not buy a Work Horse product and that reduces the value. Present owners are the ones holding the bag. This of course is in direct contradiction to what was being touted on this board, but your Work Horse has less value than a similar rig with a different chassis. We are suffering from Work Horse inflicted wounds. Those continuing to deny this are continuing to deny the obvious. Fool me one is your fault; fool me twice is my fault.
|
I was lucky enough to get one of the last W-22 chassis made. The biggest reason I went with a Newmar is because they could build my coach on the W-22. No other manufacturer that I was interested in had one in stock. I love my big block GM V-8 and Allison 6-speed! I've talked with many owners who would die for the WH chassis and drive train.
__________________
2011 Newmar Canyon Star 3411; Workhorse W22; 8.1L; Allison 6-speed
2013 Honda CRV
Portage, MI
|
|
|
05-13-2012, 03:26 PM
|
#37
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Tavares, FL
Posts: 1,652
|
The simple facts are that Work Horse made a lot of enemies when they denied they had a problem with the brakes for years and then once the government made them do the recall, they did the absolute minimum required to meet the government order for the 50,000 plus coaches they had built with defective brakes. Work Horse has a bad reputation among many buyers and dealers out there. This is easy to find out for yourself. This is not made up. There are many potential buyers that will not buy a Work Horse product either for the first time or again. The market for resale is reduced. They are now going under. These facts do impact the value of our coaches. Some individuals may have great experiences with their Work Horses. Lots of people loved their Edsels, but they went under due to the perception of poor quality. When WH started treating people who had catastrophic brake failures poorly, their actions made it obvious to me that they were not going to make it and knew it. Complicit folks on this board tried to minimize the problems from day one. Trying to blame this problem on maintaince is a long proven falsehood. It was a design problem. When my second set of calipers failed, (I am on number four now). I had only 800 miles on them and less than 2 weeks from being installed by a WH dealer. This was not a maintaince issue even though I was told that by some of the WH shills. This was a design issue and WH equivocated for years and then went under. If anybody thinks this doesn’t affect the value of their coach, then they have their head in the sand. Lots of folks and dealers will not get involved in WH products and Navistar was smart to close the plants and drop the brand. Edsel was basically a Ford with a different grill, but killed by reputation. As for those buyers who are dying to buy a WH, I am one who almost died because I did buy one. What did WH do about it; everything they could to reduce their financial loss without regard to their reputation. We are all suffering the losses because of their lack of caring about their reputation. The losses will not be finalized until our coaches are sold. My home is worth only half as much as it was 6 years ago. Hasn’t hurt me, because I haven’t sold it, but the value is still way down. It is the same with our orphan coaches. Someday, I will pay for the housing bubble. I am glad some people are happy with their WH coaches. Great for you. The only way to come out on one is to keep it until the age takes away most of the value. If the new design brakes start to fail, we are all toast. That is my big worry.
|
|
|
05-13-2012, 03:58 PM
|
#38
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,442
|
The only good thing about a Workhorse was the engine 8.1 Gm made and the trans made by Allison or Gm. Everything else was a poor excuse frame even the dash they used. No fond memories here.
|
|
|
05-13-2012, 04:29 PM
|
#39
|
Senior Member
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Surprise Arizona
Posts: 1,994
|
I find it interesting how when a single, simple question is asked about Workhorse, someone comes out of the woodwork with a monologue (routine of a stand-up comic) that has absolutly nothing to do with the thread subject.
__________________
Harold & Linda
2009 CT coachworks siena 35V
W22 Workhorse 8.1L. Explorer Sport toad,
|
|
|
05-13-2012, 04:31 PM
|
#40
|
Senior Member
Damon Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner Forest River Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 3,251
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by "RetiredBob,
I've talked with many owners who would die for the WH chassis and drive train.
|
I don't know if that's funny , sad or hideous.
__________________
Max49
2018 Forest River Georgetown F-53
'08 Jeep Wrangler Toad
Denver, Colorado
|
|
|
05-13-2012, 04:47 PM
|
#41
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Tavares, FL
Posts: 1,652
|
The original poster asked if WH was actually going out of business. I responded with my thoughts on why they were going out of business. After putting some "new" defective brakes on my coach, 800 miles later my family and I were almost killed on the Blue Ridge Parkway when we had another catastrophic brake failure. I have posted photos of it many times. WH treated me horribly afterwards as they have many others discussed here. I contend that this is why they had to go under. I think this is why they screwed so many of their customers and didn't care about losing their reputation. If you think the value of your WH coach isn't affected, then great for you. I think our values are drastically affected and this latest going out of business deal even makes it worse. If you find something specifically incorrect with anything I have said, let's hear it. If you think being in the mountains with no brakes is like stand up comedy, then you should try it sometimes. It is not funny.
|
|
|
05-13-2012, 04:56 PM
|
#42
|
Senior Member
Damon Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner Forest River Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Parker, CO
Posts: 3,251
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by WeatherTodd
Your post is completely subjective and offers absolutely NO facts to support your position. I
I say this as a consumer that HAD a choice to buy whatever rig I desired. The F53 chassis did not impress me in the least in the gasser arena. Being as they are the only player left in the new "gas" market since 2009... I would dig alil deeper and buy a used diesel before a new F53 chassis. If the F53 were the only chassis ever offered in the history of gas powered RVs... Id be rocking a towable of some kind. You can deduce from that statement F53 rigs are worthless to me... yet many still get sold and will continue too. Using "sales jargon" to convince us is laughable and only indicative of your ignorance of the real issue. Otherwise you have a platform equipped with THE best transmission ever installed in a gas rig, a monster motor that provides unmatched power.
|
Wow! Is all this factual since you purposely tried to belittle some one else's opinion?
I agree with one thing u said, the 8.1 is definitely a monster, an 'old school's unpredictable monster like Jekyll & Hyde , a basket that WH put all their eggs into and when GM retired an over the hill engine, WH was like lost puppy.
I agree with one other thing u said with a twist: if WH made the only gas MH, I'd buy either a towable or a diesel and certainly nothing that had a WH insignia on it. One big mistake is enough for me
Who ever said aftermarket companies would make parts, just go to an auto parts store and tell them u need a part for a Workhorse, overwhelming odds are, they never heard of it.
__________________
Max49
2018 Forest River Georgetown F-53
'08 Jeep Wrangler Toad
Denver, Colorado
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|