Workhorse Response to Brake Failures

[Richardrky]

On Yahoo Financial there is an story about Toyota recalling 3.8 million vehicles to replace accelerator pedals. After a fatal crash in August 2009 in California, Toyota President Akio Toyoda called the fatal crash "extremely regrettable" and offered his "deepest condolences" to the California family.
Earlier Toyota said "The safety of our owners and the public is our utmost concern and Toyota has and will continue to thoroughly investigate and take appropriate measures to address any defect trends that are identified," Toyota said in a statement.

Now, if Workhorse had of taken this attitude instead of blaming the driver for several years, they would not have created the firestorm they have. Say what you want, Workhorse's reputation has been severely damaged, maybe irreparably, by their continual denial of any problems and then their belated "well, maybe we have a problem but the driver is still to blame in a lot of cases." Maybe we'll pay but probably we won't.

Would I buy a Toyoto? Yes! Would I buy a Workhorse? Well, we'll see. My RV dealer tells me one of the first thing customers are telling him now is, "I don't want a Workhorse."

[TrekPR]

Toyota also claims that the problem is in the floor mats. I personally don't believe a CHP officer is not going to be able to disengage the accelerator pedal from the floor mat or get the car stopped if that was the only problem. I have a Toyota and have received the notice from Toyota. The loss of life was not the first report of the problem and had been investigated before, maybe now they will find the real cause. Lets hope there are no similar reports regarding Workhorse before the recall is completed.

[RustyJC]

Actually, a NHTSA investigation concluded that the accelerator pedals were sticking on the floor mats. The following is an excerpt from an Associated Press news release this morning:

Quote:

Investigators with the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration determined that a rubber all-weather floor mat found in the wreckage was slightly longer than the mat that belonged in the vehicle, and could have snared or covered the accelerator pedal. The government has attributed at least five deaths and two injuries to floor mat-related unintended acceleration in the Toyota vehicles and has received reports of more than 100 incidents in which the accelerator may have become stuck. A Massachusetts-based safety consultant who has investigated the Toyota cases, however, has found more than 2,000 incidents involving 16 deaths and 243 injuries potentially tied to the Toyota gas pedals. To fix the problem, Transportation officials said dealers will shorten the length of the accelerator pedal on the recalled vehicles and in some cases remove foam from beneath the carpeting near the pedal. They said owners of the ES350, Camry and Avalon would be the first to receive notification because the vehicles are believed to have the highest risk for pedal entrapment. Toyota plans to install a brake override system on the Camry, Avalon and Lexus ES350, IS350 and IS250 models as an "extra measure of confidence," NHTSA said. The brake override system, commonly called a "smart brake," will ensure the vehicle will stop if both the brake and the accelerator pedals are applied simultaneously.

Rusty

[RickNB]

[QUOTE=Richardrky


"well, maybe we have a problem but the driver is still to blame in a lot of cases." Maybe we'll pay but probably we won't.

[/QUOTE]

I did not see any "MAYBE we have a problem" in the notice that was sent to me and all owners about the recall. I feel that they are saying we have a problem and we are going to fix it.

Because there is an identified caliper problem does that mean that any brake problems that happen are caused by that? Is it not possible for a driver to burn up the rotors without the calipers locking due to piston swelling? Should WH pay for a new set of rotors that a driver has burnt without investigating what happened to them?

Rick

[DriVer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardrky "I don't want a Workhorse."

The biggest difference between Toyota and Workhorse is they have a fatality. Maybe I'm wrong but I haven't seen anyone apply a band aid in regard to Bosch brakes on our Workhorse motorhomes. Scary at times, "Yes", did any one die, No.

Toyota has billions of dollars in new vehicle sales pending, what could anyone expect them to say? The fact is that Toyota has complete control over parts and materials because they make everything themselves. Their engineering skills and expertise are perceived to be infallible however that clearly isn't the case.

Workhorse depends on their suppliers to provide quality components because so much depends on it. It's not difficult for anyone to list a number of premier suppliers like GM, Allison, Westport, DSP, Arvin Meritor and "yes" Bosch that provide great components for use on our motorhome chassis. By in large our ownership experience with these suppliers is excellent.

During my warranty period nobody ever said no to me and they honored and or repaired everything to my satisfaction. Workhorse kept up their end of the agreement that we made when I bought my motorhome for 3 years and 36,000 miles.

In regard to riding brakes, automobile drivers do it all the time and these to a large part are the same people that drive these large class 6 vehicles. When they fry a set of brakes on their cars they just tuck their tails in between their legs, chalk it up to wear and tear and go for the repair. On a Workhorse where a voluntary campaign is announced there are more reasons than stars in the sky why different people's experiences are varied. A great number of these are positive experiences and yes there are disappointments.

I don't expect that I'm going to be able to assuage your dissatisfaction with your service, reimbursement experience or expectation however I do expect that this campaign will be completed shortly and we can all get this issue behind us.

[Theberrys]

The damage to Workhorse is done, if the recall was started today and finished in a week people will remember. It's really too bad Workhorse is a good product and the handling of this problem had blemished the name for a good long while. But this too will pass. Americans have a short memory and Workhorse will recover. I'm not at all sure they saved any money by doing this this way, but we don't know how the costs are going to be distrubited. It sure will be nice when folks can drive there MH without this cloud hanging over there heads.

Compairing Toyota to Workhorse just doesn't fit in my mind. Look at the yearly sales numbers and you can tell there is no way they can respond in the same way.

Dick

[Jeepster47]

DriVer, well put. I don't drive my MH like our cars. As a matter of fact, I use the brakes as little as possible on the MH and change the brake fluid regularly. There is almost 30,00 miles on our Workhorse chassis without any brake problems or surface cracks on the rotors. Down shifting using the "Grade Brake", when required, is a key to my brake system well being.

Ed

[Richardrky]

As I have said before, farm trucks of all kind sat almost the entire year before they are used at harvest time. Nobody in all my years of being around these vehicles have complained of brakes acting the way the brakes have on the Workhorse chassis. The people driving these farm vehicles are definitely not professional and mostly don't care about how they drive somebody else's vehicle.
Yes, people ride their brakes but mostly it wears the brake pads out way too early. Yes, major problems have occurred from brake problems but not with the frequency Workhorse brakes have occurred.
The design is flawed and everybody knows it. To nit pick and refuse to pay because a certain brake failure does not meet their criterion is bull. Workhorse obviously does not know all there is to know about brakes because it they did, it would not have taken them years and years to even admit they had a brake problem. So if Workhorse is all knowing on the causes of these brake failures, then they must have been not telling the truth for all these years.
Toyoto has millions of cars on the road and several deaths have resulted from their problem. Workhorse is minuscule compared to Toyoto. So, it's OK to drive a vehicle with bad brakes just because no deaths have resulted from them so far. What happens when a death does occur. Oh, it not Workhorse's fault. They were riding their brakes!
What's the odds of a death caused by Toyoto's problem. Very small, but yet they have stepped to the plate and it did not take them years and years to do so.
I'm at home setting out the winter months in the cold when I should be in a warmer climate because I don't want to risk my life or anybody elses driving a vehicle with brakes that are unreliable.
These vehicles are unsafe at any speed and need to be fixed at the utmost urgency. Workhorse - fix the problem, pay up, and attempt to restore some common decency to your company.

[jdsr]

I guess based on the wh amb opinion if someone would have died we might have got a recall sooner. Who wants to step up tp be the first? Give me a break. If wh would have acted sooner(like 3 years sooner) we might have a fix, although this is the second recall on brakes for wh. Most of us will not get our money back for brake repairs unless we go to small claims court.Yes there rep has been damaged perm and imo its well deserved. If you dont believe that just go to most dealerships and talk about the wh chassis. P.s. I never thought wh and its amb could come up with another excuse to blame us but BOY I was wrong, Riding the brakes huh? How many wh amb do you take with you when you travel so he can make that statement?

[dieselclacker]

I believe the brake riding was in reference to pre-mature rotor wear. Some drivers no doubt do ride thier brakes, and expect Workhorse to replace worn out rotors that occur because of this driving habit. I would expect that a sticking caliper caused by a swollen caliper piston, would cause smell, smoke, maybe some pulling in the steering, and yes a soft, or no brake pedal pressure. But to wear out a rotor, or in some cases all four rotors, as claimed by some and lay the blame on faultly calipers just doesn't cut it in my opinion.

Dieselclacker

[Whaler]

Just some facts,Toyota recall goes back to 2004 on some models,with a possibility of 16,...thats 16 possibly related DEATHS!!!!!!

[RickNB]

IMHO you cannot compare farm trucks with a WH mh. All farm trucks that I have driven do not have disc brakes but have drum and pads either hydraulic actuated or spring actuated if air brakes. The return of the pads with these systems is assisted with heavy springs and the running clearance is much larger than disc brakes and I recall if they were hydraulic even with vacum assist they did not have the braking power of a disc brake. All of the farm trucks that I have driven were also standard transmission and the slowing down was always done by down shifting using the brakes for only the final stop. I also drove some that had almost no brakes maybe it was because they did sit around a lot and there was no maintenance done on them. Drum brakes need to be adjusted as the pads wear because the cams can only move them so far.
"Yes, people ride their brakes but mostly it wears the brake pads out way too early." This is correct but if the pads are being worn then they have to be rubbing against the rotors this causes friction and friction cause heat enough heat will cause serious damage to the rotors as well as boil the fluid regardless if it has water in it or not and cause reduced braking or bad pedal.

"I never thought wh and its amb could come up with another excuse to blame us but BOY I was wrong, Riding the brakes huh?" I can not see where in the WH Amb post that he is blaming anybody but making a statement that this does happen if the shoe fits then wear it if it don't then ignore it .

I asked 3 questions in my previous post and nobody has answered them except for Driver who answered number 2 and then gets flamed for it.
1."Because there is an identified caliper problem does that mean that any brake problems that happen are caused by that?"
2. "Is it not possible for a driver to burn up the rotors without the calipers locking due to piston swelling?"
3. " Should WH pay for a new set of rotors that a driver has burnt without investigating what happened to them?"

I am not blaming anybody for riding their brakes as the cause of their brake problems.I do not know your driving habits or experience level and have no actual data so therefore cannot make a judgement. I am not a Workhorse ambassador just an owner with some questions that I have after reading hundreds of brake related complaint posts that don't always add up to the problem of a stuck caliper.

Rick

[abarkl]

"I believe the brake riding was in reference to pre-mature rotor wear. Some drivers no doubt do ride thier brakes, and expect Workhorse to replace worn out rotors that occur because of this driving habit. I would expect that a sticking caliper caused by a swollen caliper piston, would cause smell, smoke, maybe some pulling in the steering, and yes a soft, or no brake pedal pressure. But to wear out a rotor, or in some cases all four rotors, as claimed by some and lay the blame on faultly calipers just doesn't cut it in my opinion.

Dieselclacker"

My rotors have cracked clean through twice in less than 3 years. No premature wear.

[RickNB]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whaler Just some facts,Toyota recall goes back to 2004 on some models,with a possibility of 16,...thats 16 possibly related DEATHS!!!!!!

Whaler are you saying Toyota had this problem on 2004 models and are just recalling it now?