1996 F53/460 not in Closed Loop

[taiowa]

Had a check engine light, and Glenn at AMR found a melted vacuum line going to the EGR. Fixed that, and no more CEL, but the Ease Diagnostics reader showed that the system was never going into Closed Loop. Changed the O2 sensor because that was another fault from the same scan that indicated EGR, but still no Closed Loop.

Can anyone check with someone who has a current subscription with Ease Diagnostics, and ask whether the unit tells the truth about Closed Loop for the 460? The F53 is not listed, so we used F350 because the VIN codes were close.

[subford]

You have and OBD1 EEC-IV PCM Computer.
There is not an error code for not going into Closed Loop in this system.
I would not go by anything the Ease Diagnostics or a Snap-On or other code scanners says.

To read your codes go to and Auto Parts store and buy a $30.00 code reader it is call the Equus 3145 Ford Digital Code Reader. There is no other code reader or scanner that can tell you any more information about your system than this one.

If you do not want to buy the Equus 3145 at O'relly Auto Parts or other supply store then get a paper clip and count the flashes on the MIL in the dash.
Here is how to do that:
Ford Fuel Injection » How To Run a Self-Test

Here is an image of the Equus 3145:


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[mpaton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by taiowa Had a check engine light, and Glenn at AMR found a melted vacuum line going to the EGR. Fixed that, and no more CEL, but the Ease Diagnostics reader showed that the system was never going into Closed Loop. Changed the O2 sensor because that was another fault from the same scan that indicated EGR, but still no Closed Loop. Can anyone check with someone who has a current subscription with Ease Diagnostics, and ask whether the unit tells the truth about Closed Loop for the 460? The F53 is not listed, so we used F350 because the VIN codes were close.

Briefly, what you are seeing about Closed Loop is correct. The more detailed explanation is below.

On these scanners, as long as the correct engine code is given to the scanner, the real time data will be correct. The injected 460 is code G, the 8th letter/digit in the VIN.

Among the 460 ECUs there are several different varieties of internal programming, or "Calibrations". These are indicated by a code that is usually 4 letters or digits, and may be found on a label the gray 60 pin ECU connector. Look at

Ford Fuel Injection » EEC Program Codes

for a photo of some labels. The Calibration or catch code is in a font about 3 times larger than the other letters. On my 94 chassis, the code is TOE0, which seems to be a common one.

On the 460 engined F53, Ford puts the ECU against the firewall just in front of the steering column, just above the floor inside the cabin. The gray connector will be at the bottom, making the label upside down. The metal case of the ECU is probably inside a black plastic cover, and may have another label on the black plastic with the code on it.

If you find this code, please post it here, and we can see how many different calibrations there are.

On my TOE0 calibration, the diagnostic scanner shows the ECU almost never in Closed Loop. A closer investigation shows that it does go into Closed Loop, but only at very low manifold pressures (high manifold vacuum), such as when you are coasting with the throttle closed. It is also set not to enter closed loop at idle.

This has several consequences. No Closed Loop means no Adaptive control. Adaptive is the mechanism whereby the engine tunes itself to adapt to different fuels, and compensate for wear. With no Adaptive control, your engine cannot adapt to the 10% ethanol fuel now in common use in many parts of the country. On 10% ethanol, your engine is now running 4% leaner.

[Road King]

Depending where your ODB1 port is located, mine is inside the dog house, I would highly recommend getting a 6 ft ODB1 cable in addition to the Equus 3145. This keeps you from standing on your head to read the codes. I can sit in the drivers seat and easily read the codes. The extension cables are not avbailable at the auto parts stores, but on Amazon. Just Google ODB1 cable.

[subford]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpaton On my TOE0 calibration, the diagnostic scanner shows the ECU almost never in Closed Loop. A closer investigation shows that it does go into Closed Loop, but only at very low manifold pressures (high manifold vacuum), such as when you are coasting with the throttle closed. It is also set not to enter closed loop at idle.

With no Closed loop code how does this scanner know you are in closed loop?
The PCM Computer will go to closed loop when the ECT sensor says the engine has warmed up.
Manifold pressure (vacuum) has nothing to do with an PCM going to closed loop and it will not go back into it unless you go to wide Open Throttle and then it is the TPS that tells it to and not the MAP sensor (vacuum).



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[mpaton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by subford With no Closed loop code how does this scanner know you are in closed loop?

The scanner you posted the picture of can not tell you that because it's really not a scanner, it's just a code reader. OBD-1 scanners are made, such as the Autoxray (don't especially like) or the Equus 3140. Both of those will plug into the OBD1 socket and give you a live real time readout of several engine parameters, like RPM, Coolant temperature, and Closed Loop status.

Quote:

Originally Posted by subford The PCM Computer will go to closed loop when the ECT sensor says the engine has warmed up.

That is the generally accepted view, and generically is correct. However if you get yourself a scanner and drive around with it connected you will be able to corroborate my statements about hardly ever being in Closed Loop. (as I'm aware you also have a TOE0 ECU) This is how I discovered that Closed Loop was hardly ever entered.

Quote:

Originally Posted by subford Manifold pressure (vacuum) has nothing to do with an PCM going to closed loop and it will not go back into it unless you go to wide Open Throttle and then it is the TPS that tells it to and not the MAP sensor (vacuum).

Again, as a generalization, this may be correct in many cases, however it is not correct in the TOE0 ECU calibration. It is closer to correct in the ECU used in the 460 engined 3/4 and 1 ton trucks and vans.

In the Ford Speed Density F-series ECUs, many things can be calibrated to permit closed loop or to require open loop, and the TPS is just one of them.

In the course of wondering why my F53 did not give better gas mileage when cruising at reduced speed, I have laboriously decoded this ECU calibration, and I can assure you that in this case the F53 will NEVER enter Closed Loop above a manifold pressure of about 9"Hg or about 21 inches of vacuum.

[mpaton]

Bumping this thread, in the hope that some of you with a 460 engined Class A can post your ECU Calibration code. I'm looking into possibilities of mileage improvements.

[subford]

I have talked to three others with the 1994 F53 and all have had the same Program Code (TOE0) as ours.
Note also that the 1994 Ford Pick-Up truck with a 460 & E4OD also has the same Ford part number (F4TF-12A650-AMA) for the PCM Computer as long as it has the Calibration Code of 4-98B-R00.

Also talked to one with a 1995 F53 and he had a Calibration number of 5-98A-R00 or number on part of F5TF-12A650-ALA.

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[Nick-B]

I'll post mine. Where do I find this fancy sticker???

[subford]

Mine is just in front of my right foot when driving.
Yours may have a panel in front of it.



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[Nick-B]

Sorry I don't have a picture. My wife is out of town with our camera.

The stickers show MOO0 (Em, Oh, Oh, Zero) "REMAN".
EFI SD48E
F5TF-12A650-BGA M12889
R4ESE48N71G 0141-0080 1K16

GREAT! So some "wiseguy mechanic" replaced the main computer with a "remanufactured" one and now I don't really know if I have the correct CPU for my drivetrain. I've been experiencing some minor issues with my engine and now I wonder if the real culprit is a "wrong" computer!?!

I'm of the opinion that "bad" engine computers are as rare as Hen's Teeth but some unscrupulous or simply ignorant mechanics replace computers because:
A: they are highy profitable
B: let's just swap parts till its fixed

Any clue if this is a proper replacement "REMAN" computer for my 1995 F53 chassis???

[mpaton]

Well, these 15+ year old ECUs aren't made new any more, so if you really did need a replacement, it would likely have to be a reman.

No need for a picture, you seem to have got all the details; you must read upside down well!

The tuner community seems to go by the calibration code, your MOO0, and Ford parts goes pretty much by the part number suffix. 12A650 means an ECU, and -BGA is the variant. I wish I know how to correlate the MOO0 to the -BGA.

I don't know if the -BGA is the correct ECU for your F53, but it's at least compatible for 2 reasons.

1 You're driving it

2 I see it listed as one of the variants used on a 1995 model year 7.5L
engine on the Motorcraft website. It's one of 5 possibilities, and it goes with the calibration 5-98B-R00. You can find this by going to the Motorcraft website, and look for VECI labels.

You get there by selecting Pro Center->Motorcraft technical resources->Quick Guides->VECI Labels. Every so often, like just now when I tried it, following this will tell you that a subscription is required, but most of the time it doesn't. If you get that far, select 1995, and look for 7.5L engined vehicles under either "Light Truck", "Heavy Truck" or F450. That will bring up a list of the different calibrations available, such as 5-98B-R00, and looking at that will show you the vacuum hose routing, and at the bottom, a parts list including the ECU part number.

It will also show you a picture of the VECI label, and the 3 letter code of the VECI label. If you find that, an dif your engine still has the VECI label attached, you could compare them, and I would expect that would tell you if the -BGA MOO0 ECU is the corect one.

Most vehickes have the VECI label under the hood, but 460 engined F53s have them on the outside rear of the driver's side rocker cover, usually visible from just behind the left side front wheel.

What engine issues are you having? You know that the OBD1 ECUs can have stored odes without setting a check engine light.

Thanks for looking for this code. So now we know of TOE0, DOE0, and MOO0.

Who's next?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick-B Sorry I don't have a picture. My wife is out of town with our camera. The stickers show MOO0 (Em, Oh, Oh, Zero) "REMAN". EFI SD48E F5TF-12A650-BGA M12889 R4ESE48N71G 0141-0080 1K16 GREAT! So some "wiseguy mechanic" replaced the main computer with a "remanufactured" one and now I don't really know if I have the correct CPU for my drivetrain. I've been experiencing some minor issues with my engine and now I wonder if the real culprit is a "wrong" computer!?! I'm of the opinion that "bad" engine computers are as rare as Hen's Teeth but some unscrupulous or simply ignorant mechanics replace computers because: A: they are highy profitable B: let's just swap parts till its fixed Any clue if this is a proper replacement "REMAN" computer for my 1995 F53 chassis???

["007"]

On my 88 460 had a vacuum line that went to some type of valve under the round air filter pan.
It was sitting on hot engine and put a hole through the plastic valve.
Caused poor acceleration from stop.

[mpaton]

Quote:

Originally Posted by "007" On my 88 460 had a vacuum line that went to some type of valve under the round air filter pan. It was sitting on hot engine and put a hole through the plastic valve. Caused poor acceleration from stop.

Was your 88 Injected? "Round Air Filter pan" sounds like carburetted.