Community Forums

subford · 02-09-2017, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 429CV23

The coach harness had 4 wires; yellow, black, and 2 pink/black wires, although the plug only had 3. I soldered both pink/black wires to the new pink/black wire in the harness adapter.

The coach harness should only have had one pink/black pump power wire, a Yellow wire with a white stripe for the fuel gauge and a black ground wire.

You should have been able to cut the C300 Fuel sender plug off and used the Motorcraft WT56820 Wiring Assembly.

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429CV23 · 02-09-2017, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subford

The coach harness should only have had one pink/black pump power wire, a Yellow wire with a white stripe for the fuel gauge and a black ground wire.

You should have been able to cut the C300 Fuel sender plug off and used the Motorcraft WT56820 Wiring Assembly.

/

Yep, ordered the harness adapter along with the pump. I was very surprised to see the 2 power wires feeding the C300 plug.

429CV23 · 02-12-2017, 03:28 PM

Took her for a short drive yesterday and all seems well.

I'll be taking her for a longer drive later in the week after today's snow is gone.

Hopefully this issue will be put to bed so I can get the new headlights/LEDs in, as well as the new LED porch light with motion sensor.

429CV23 · 02-19-2017, 05:40 PM

OK, so after replacing everything, it is still running very badly. Had to do a few things this afternoon at work so I drove her there, about 28mi each way, lots of hills, and elevation change of 7300ft to 5500ft. She had a slight drop in power a few times on the way there. Spent about 20min at work. After that she took longer to start than usual, and had mucho problems on the way home. A couple times I thought she was just going to die and leave me stranded.
I'm thinking coil heat soak. I'll also replace the ICM while I'm at it. I know many of the Ford ICMs were junk. My son had a Bronco II that went through quite a few of them in the short time he had it.

I was going to just pick up a BWD ICM from O'Reilly's, but saw a post about using the black module instead of the gray. All they carry is the gray. Seems like that is all anyone carries. Is there a different part number for the black one??

Edit: I did some searching and read another 10-12 forum threads related to this. The ICM from a 1995 Mustang 5.0 is the black one that will work.

subford · 02-20-2017, 06:25 AM

Yes your 1997 F53 is only wired to take the Black ICM. Just about all of the auto parts stores and Ford dealers will try to sell you the wrong one as their look up system is wrong. The auto part stores just copied the wrong information from ford.

The gray one takes different wiring and a different PCM Computer and will not give as much power as the Black one but the engine will start and run with the Gray one.
You will also get IDM errors with the Gray one.
The gray one is for the old "push-start system" and the Black ICM is for the "CCD system".

But on the other hand the Black one very seldom if ever goes bad as the old gray one did when it was mounted to the distributor like in the Bronco II.

That said yes the one for the 1995 Mustang 5.0 will work just fine for you.

I do not remember if you changed the PIP sensor in the distributor or not without re-reading this thread but I have heard of the PIP sensor causing this kind of problem.
I know a lot of distributors that you buy have bad PIP sensors in them as they do not replace the PIP sensor when they are reworked. So always buy a "NEW" distributor or replace the PIP sensor in the a rebuilt distributor you buy before putting it in.

429CV23 · 02-20-2017, 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by subford

Yes your 1997 F53 is only wired to take the Black ICM. Just about all of the auto parts stores and Ford dealers will try to sell you the wrong one as their look up system is wrong. The auto part stores just copied the wrong information from ford.

The gray one takes different wiring and a different PCM Computer and will not give as much power as the Black one but the engine will start and run with the Gray one.
You will also get IDM errors with the Gray one.
The gray one is for the old "push-start system" and the Black ICM is for the "CCD system".

But on the other hand the Black one very seldom if ever goes bad as the old gray one did when it was mounted to the distributor like in the Bronco II.

That said yes the one for the 1995 Mustang 5.0 will work just fine for you.

I do not remember if you changed the PIP sensor in the distributor or not without re-reading this thread but I have heard of the PIP sensor causing this kind of problem.
I know a lot of distributors that you buy have bad PIP sensors in them as they do not replace the PIP sensor when they are reworked. So always buy a "NEW" distributor or replace the PIP sensor in the a rebuilt distributor you buy before putting it in.

I have not replaced the PIP sensor. If the ICM/coil replacement do not help I'll replace it.

I read the difference in the gray & black ICMs is the black module controls timing advance, the gray does not. Difference between OBDI and OBDII ECM/PCMs?

subford · 02-20-2017, 07:57 AM

The OBD-I EEC-IV Ignition system operates with both the Gray (Push-Start) and the Black (CCD) systems. In 1996 the F150 also used the Black ICM with the OBD-II. All F-series Ford 460 trucks and RV's from 1994 and newer use the Black ICM with the EEC-IV Ignition system.

subford · 02-20-2017, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 429CV23

I read the difference in the gray & black ICMs is the black module controls timing advance, the gray does not. Difference between OBDI and OBDII ECM/PCMs?

From the Ford shop manual:

The distributor ignition system has two distinct configurations. In the first configuration, the ICM is mounted on the distributor and has three pins which plug into the hall effect Camshaft Position Sensor--CMP (PIP sensor) inside the distributor (Systems A and E). This configuration is called distributor mounted ICM. The ICM on the second, remote mount ICM, is not mounted on the distributor but in another location within the engine compartment (Systems B, C, D, F, G and H). Each module is represented pictorially in Figures «3» and «4».

The components of both configurations consist of the ICM, distributor, CMP (hall effect PIP) sensor, and E-core ignition coil. The distributor used on the distributor mounted ICM configuration is called a Universal Distributor and has an opening in it through which the pins of the ICM plug into the CMP (PIP) sensor. On the remote mount configuration, a Sealed Distributor is used. The CMP (hall effect PIP) sensor is located inside the distributor on both configurations. Note also that there are no mechanisms on either distributor for centrifugal or vacuum advance.

The CMP (hall effect PIP) sensor inside the distributor responds to a rotating metallic shutter on the distributor shaft and produces a digital PIP signal. This signal provides base timing information and is an indication of engine speed (rpm) and position. Note that since the shutter is mounted on the distributor shaft, two revolutions of the engine crankshaft are required to fire each spark plug once. This is because the distributor rotates at half the crankshaft speed.

The internal circuitry of the ICM will have one of two possible arrangements, push start or computer controlled dwell (CCD). The push start system allows for increased dwell, or coil ON time, when starting the engine. The ICM on this system determines when to turn the coil ON based upon engine rpm information. The coil is then fired, or turned OFF, whenever a rising edge of a SPOUT signal is encountered ( «Figure 5»). The SPOUT signal, short for SPark OUTput, is a digital signal generated by the PCM providing spark angle information to the ICM. The SPOUT signal on the push start system controls only the firing of the coil. The falling edge of the SPOUT signal is ignored. The CCD system, however, does use both edges of the SPOUT signal ( «Figure 6»). The SPOUT signal for the CCD system is same as in the push start except that the falling edge is now generated to control the time at which the coil is turned ON. The coil ON time, or dwell, for this system is thus entirely controlled by the SPOUT signal. The ICM does not internally determine when to turn the coil ON as it does on the push start system. It responds directly to the SPOUT signal it receives.

In the case that the SPOUT signal line opens from the PCM, the ICM will use the PIP signal to fire the coil. This results in a fixed spark angle and fixed dwell.

/

429CV23 · 02-21-2017, 05:08 PM

Still having the exact same issue it had when I began all this.

So far I've replaced:
Fuel pump
Fuel filter
Fuel pressure regulator
Distributor cap
Rotor
Plugs
Wires
MAP sensor
O2 sensor
Coil
ICM

Will be picking up a distributor pickup tonight.

429CV23 · 02-21-2017, 05:29 PM

Does anyone know which pickup is correct? I see two listed, one with an 8-wire connector (looks like it's all plastic), the other with 3 (has metal mount/flange).

subford · 02-21-2017, 06:05 PM

The one with the 8 pin connector is the right one.

/

429CV23 · 02-22-2017, 07:23 AM

Great info, thanks Bill! That's the one I picked up.

I am wondering if this could all be caused by vapor lock. The Banks kit includes heat shielding for the fuel line and parking brake cable, but I'm wondering if it isn't sufficient. I saw no change in fuel pressure when it had issues, but maybe there would be no change since it is fuel injected?

429CV23 · 02-26-2017, 05:54 PM

Well, I decided to order a complete, new distributor. What a PIA having to pull the distributor and disassemble it to replace the pickup. $35 for the pickup, or $48 for a complete new unit.

Should be delivered Tuesday, should have it in Wed afternoon. If this doesn't solve it, I'll have to find a Ford dealer with a big enough bay.

Finally got the new fuel filler hose installed and that now has no leaks, so she has a full tank of fuel.

I wrapped both fuel lines from the back of the intake to the frame rail. I doubt they are close enough to the header to cause vapor lock.

The MIL came on while driving to the gas station today, stayed on for a good 15min. Checked codes when I got home; no hard codes, no codes in continuous memory. Got the 000, 111, 10, 111 codes.

electrowood · 02-26-2017, 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 429CV23

Still having the exact same issue it had when I began all this.

So far I've replaced:
Fuel pump
Fuel filter
Fuel pressure regulator
Distributor cap
Rotor
Plugs
Wires
MAP sensor
O2 sensor
Coil
ICM

Will be picking up a distributor pickup tonight.

Wow! You have been through it. While installing exhaust system you may have moved your MLPS.
Last summer I had my transmission rebuilt but in the process the manual transmission position sensor was bumped out of adjustment. When I got it home the motorhome ran fine sometimes and would die on me a few times such that I thought it would stop. I geared down said a prayer and took it easy and called the repair shop. He told me it was trottle position sensor. I bought a new one, did not fix. Crawled under to check MLPS because only repairs were around transmission. Sure enough it was out of adjustment by 1/16". Adjusted same till the lines line up in neutral. No more problems.
Doesn't cost anything to check adjustment if you haven't already.
Good Luck.