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07-20-2018, 05:08 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 182
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2000 F53 Chassis with Original Parts....Thoughts?
Hey guys:
I have a 2001 Winnebago Adventurer that looks like it was manufactured late 2000. I got it in the beginning of June and since then, I feel like I have been throwing money at it to have it drive like all of the other success stories here on the forum. So far I have done a Roadmaster steering stabilizer, new shocks (Monroe) and am getting a new tierod installed this upcoming week.
Some of the problems that I have been experiencing have been the tail wag effect, wandering and side to side motion.
Based on the vastness of information on the forums here, I’m guessing that the tail wag effect is mostly or half and half because the rear sway bar bushings are shot and or because the rear chf was not done. I have not been under the coach to verify if they are, but based on other work done on it I’m pretty sure that it has a virgin underbelly. Just in case, I do have a set of the front and rear bushings ordered off of eBay from Skuterdude. I’m wondering if I should also do the front sway bar link bushings? Or since the chf most likely wasn’t done, should I just get the Roadmaster end links with the new bushings?
I was also kind of surprised that after the steering stabilizer was installed that I still had the amount of wandering. When I had the tires balanced, they noticed that the tierod had “play” in it. Exactly what kind of play, not sure. Knowing what little that I do know about the tierod, it’s role and my experience with steering after the stabilizer install; the play may be worn bushings as well. It feels like I can turn the steering wheel a little before the tires start to actually turn, causing me to oversteer most of the time and have to make big adjustments to get back to center. The tierod is getting replaced because when the shop was trying to do an alignment, they got about half a turn before it froze up from all of the rust and years of stuff on it. It was a toss up of me paying them to try to clean it and also potentially have to pay for a new one anyways or just get a new one. So I decided to just go for new. In the long run, will probably be cheaper.
This feels long winded, but finally the side to side motion. I’m guessing that if I do the chf and the new bushings, I should see a dramatic decrease in the wind blowing side to side and 18 wheeler blowing? I don’t want to do new sway bars yet if I don’t need to. I kinda want my wallet to cool down before I drop that kind of money for them. Plus I do want to enjoy it a little.
All in all, I do understand that this is a big box going down the road. The dynamics of maneuvering, steering and pretty much everything else is different than a car. But you can’t tell me that Ford built a chassis like this and thought it would be ok to have it handle as poorly as it is. Just my .02 but wanted to get the communities feel for if I’m wasting money or if everything together should make for an enjoyable ride.
Alex
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07-20-2018, 05:40 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 7,114
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Before spending any money o aftermarket components, I recommend three things:
1) CHF - Do the CHF front and rear. If possible, extend the front links by three inches..
2) Verify the front end alignment, you want it set at max toe in in order to get max stability.
3) Verify tire pressures.. Max tire pressure will give the best handling at a sightly harsher ride.
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07-20-2018, 05:59 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Melbourne Fl
Posts: 2,705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiba_Alex
Hey guys:
I have a 2001 Winnebago Adventurer that looks like it was manufactured late 2000. I got it in the beginning of June and since then, I feel like I have been throwing money at it to have it drive like all of the other success stories here on the forum. So far I have done a Roadmaster steering stabilizer, new shocks (Monroe) and am getting a new tierod installed this upcoming week.
Some of the problems that I have been experiencing have been the tail wag effect, wandering and side to side motion.
Based on the vastness of information on the forums here, I’m guessing that the tail wag effect is mostly or half and half because the rear sway bar bushings are shot and or because the rear chf was not done. I have not been under the coach to verify if they are, but based on other work done on it I’m pretty sure that it has a virgin underbelly. Just in case, I do have a set of the front and rear bushings ordered off of eBay from Skuterdude. I’m wondering if I should also do the front sway bar link bushings? Or since the chf most likely wasn’t done, should I just get the Roadmaster end links with the new bushings?
I was also kind of surprised that after the steering stabilizer was installed that I still had the amount of wandering. When I had the tires balanced, they noticed that the tierod had “play” in it. Exactly what kind of play, not sure. Knowing what little that I do know about the tierod, it’s role and my experience with steering after the stabilizer install; the play may be worn bushings as well. It feels like I can turn the steering wheel a little before the tires start to actually turn, causing me to oversteer most of the time and have to make big adjustments to get back to center. The tierod is getting replaced because when the shop was trying to do an alignment, they got about half a turn before it froze up from all of the rust and years of stuff on it. It was a toss up of me paying them to try to clean it and also potentially have to pay for a new one anyways or just get a new one. So I decided to just go for new. In the long run, will probably be cheaper.
This feels long winded, but finally the side to side motion. I’m guessing that if I do the chf and the new bushings, I should see a dramatic decrease in the wind blowing side to side and 18 wheeler blowing? I don’t want to do new sway bars yet if I don’t need to. I kinda want my wallet to cool down before I drop that kind of money for them. Plus I do want to enjoy it a little.
All in all, I do understand that this is a big box going down the road. The dynamics of maneuvering, steering and pretty much everything else is different than a car. But you can’t tell me that Ford built a chassis like this and thought it would be ok to have it handle as poorly as it is. Just my .02 but wanted to get the communities feel for if I’m wasting money or if everything together should make for an enjoyable ride.
Alex
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I have a 99 Newmar Dutchstar. Has shocks installed at 44000 also steering stabilizer. Rest is stock. It handles great. No problem with alignment or tire wear. . Installed new air cond. New fridge this year. New radiator hoses and had All brakes redone with new seals at 66000. New brake fluid. Generator replaced 1.5 years ago. Last original owner never used it much so it rusted out after 2 years of my use. Everything inside was like new. Had new viny planking installed in living room and bath. Had house done and used left over installed in RV. Redid roof with liquid rubber. Purchased rv for 16000 6.5 years. Has never broken down. I feel money put in still way ahead of newer rv. Most just up date and maint.also installed push to start button and new. Starter. This was to bypass all of ford prestart switches at key and transmission switch. Replaced all interior light bulbs with leds. Big diff in lighting. Replaced headlight bulbs with brighter bulbs..installed cross fire tire equalizer on rear wheels. Make it much easier to air up tires. Had exhaust studs replaced also. Seens like a lot of$. But spread out over 6 years not that much compared to a monthly payments. Tow 2014 crv with no problem.
Sooo keep on stroking. Its worth it.[emoji12] [emoji23]
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07-20-2018, 07:33 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 182
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With ordering the bushings and getting the tierod replaced, I hope that will make a big difference. Getting the tierod replaced, the shop will finish the alignment. That should also take out the “play” that the other shop saw. Since I am not too mechanically inclined, I asked the shop that is doing the tierod to do the CHF but they came back and said that if Ford put it in the hole that it is, that it should stay that way. So I think I am going to do tackle that with the bushing replacement.
Just for reference; for the front CHF, I should get the new links so that the sway bar is in more of a natural position? And the rear CHF is pretty much reversing the z brackets?
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07-20-2018, 07:47 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Melbourne Fl
Posts: 2,705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiba_Alex
With ordering the bushings and getting the tierod replaced, I hope that will make a big difference. Getting the tierod replaced, the shop will finish the alignment. That should also take out the “play” that the other shop saw. Since I am not too mechanically inclined, I asked the shop that is doing the tierod to do the CHF but they came back and said that if Ford put it in the hole that it is, that it should stay that way. So I think I am going to do tackle that with the bushing replacement.
Just for reference; for the front CHF, I should get the new links so that the sway bar is in more of a natural position? And the rear CHF is pretty much reversing the z brackets?
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Left mine stock. Could not wish for better handlng. Ford engineering positioned that link posution for a reason. I do not wish to put added stress on any other components. But thats just me.[emoji1]
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07-20-2018, 07:55 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Rexhall Owners Group
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Beavercreek, OH
Posts: 336
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With all due respect Waiter 21, tramlining or the tendency of the vehicle to follow the ruts in the road - most often the reason for the wandering and needed steering correction - is made worse if the tire pressures are higher than required. If you know the front axle weight, set your the pressure based on the weight. If not, use the pressure listed on the tier placard for the coach. As Waiter 21 said, increased toe in will also make the front end more stable as will correct caster that will help the track recenter after hitting a bump.
If your tie rod end play is the primary reason for the shop recommending replacement, you will also notice an improvement from its replacement as well. The end play is what allows you to move the steering wheel a little before the wheels start to move.
Welcome to the never ending project called an RV!
__________________
Jim & Lin
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07-20-2018, 08:14 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 182
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I poked my head outside because I was curious. The sway bar bushings in the front actually look good. I was kinda hoping that they would be shot to justify the cost and ordering the new bushings. Now the bushings that are on there now are not bright blue, so probably the original ones. Now one thing I did notice as I started feeling around things. The passenger side bolt where the link is connected was loose. The nut and screw was on and in place but the screw can turn. I checked the other screw on that side and the driver side and all good.
Attached photo is of the passenger side and the screw that is attached to the link that can freely move.
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07-21-2018, 08:26 AM
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#8
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Registered User
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 7,114
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Quote:
Just for reference; for the front CHF, I should get the new links so that the sway bar is in more of a natural position? And the rear CHF is pretty much reversing the z brackets?
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Yes, Preferabley, you want the front links about 3 inches linger when you do the CHF. This will improve the geometry..
You will not re-use the front "Z" brackets. The links will hit them if you re-install them.. On the rear, you will re-use them, but they need to be flipped around. You'll see this when you take them off..
I have some drawings and photos on my site that might help you:
http://www.1999southwind.com/chf-che...-and-handling/
Jim is correct on tire pressure.. I'd set it at whatever the placard says as a starting point... (mine says 100psi) Id then weigh the MH and then look at what the tire manufactures say the minimum is (mine is 70 psi, all six tires).
Then on the next long trip, you can play with it and see what gives you the best ride / handling. I set mine at 80 psi. I don't think I see any change in handling, but it seems to ride a little smoother..
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07-21-2018, 08:25 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 249
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Alex
The biggest difference I made in handling on mine (1999-36 ft) was a rear track bar. Mine was home made using a tractor 3ph center link, much cheaper than commercial units. My unit is now rock solid compared to when I first got it. My new tires were over inflated as well for the weight of the motorhome, placard said 80 psi and the tire shop set them at 100. With an alignment and proper inflation, it was better but I was still blown around by passing trucks. The track bar and chf all but handled it. I have since added a front track bar which was about another 10%
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07-22-2018, 02:10 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 182
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I would have to check the PSI because I don’t know what it’s at. I just got back from a long weekend trip and noticed that if I got to about 60; that was the ideal handling speed. Along with short jerky steering corrections versus longer slow corrections, I was able to keep it straighter. This was also going down an interstate highway, so I might have found the grooves in the road and that helped. So I think next weekend I am going to do the new bushings, get the links and do the CHF and on Monday will have the tierod replaced and alignment finished. A lot of work being done, but the culmination of it should be for the good.
Now about the homemade trac bars.....Is there a forum post or something that has a comprehensive setup and explanation on that??
__________________
Alex and co-pilot Shiba Inu Kuja
2001 Winnebago Adventurer 37G pulling a 2010 GMC Terrain
Fulltiming since 6/1/19
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07-23-2018, 05:39 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 182
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Waiter21:
When using the 1/2 inch water pipe, is that inner diameter or outer diameter dimensions? I get the feeling that the Hellwig links are not good for the f53 chassis and doing the cutting and welding of the existing links would be preferable. Just want to make sure I get it right the first time so I’m not having to buy a second pair of links.
__________________
Alex and co-pilot Shiba Inu Kuja
2001 Winnebago Adventurer 37G pulling a 2010 GMC Terrain
Fulltiming since 6/1/19
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07-23-2018, 07:27 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 7,114
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Plumbing measurements are never what they say they are.. I know its 1/2 inch water pipe, I believe thats ID...
If you look at the photos on my site, I got a couple pieces of scrap pipe at work and used them. Thats why the yellow paint..
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07-27-2018, 09:43 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 182
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Waiter21:
I started on the CHF yesterday. I got the new bushings for the front and rear yesterday and got the front links off. They are at a machine/welding shop to get lengthened. They should be ready Monday. So that should give me enough time to replace the front bushings, and do the rear CHF with the replacement bushings and brackets. I don't know how everyone has been doing this in 20 minutes or so. I think it took me about 30 minutes to just get a wrench onto the top bolt to get it loosened. I'm guessing that the whole process can be made a whole lot easier if you have air tools and not have to grunt it with ole fashioned hand tools.
Question time. How did you get a torque wrench up into the top bracket to torque the bolts down? There doesn't seem to be enough space to get a long wrench in and turning. Also, what should the bolts be torqued to? I think I've seen 66 ft/lbs floating around, but not sure if that is accurate.
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07-27-2018, 10:47 AM
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#14
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Registered User
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: NW Ohio
Posts: 7,114
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Usually when I re-install a bolts/nut combination, I attempt to install them so I can get the torque wrench on the nut, NOT the bolt.. If I can't get the torque wrench on it, I do a calibrated guess.
65 ft lbs will do it..
IMPORTANT - If you start putting bolt/nuts on in a different configuration than what came from the factory, verify it won't hit something or interfere with something..
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