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Old 02-12-2016, 09:19 AM   #1
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2001 F53 brake rotor, hubs, calipers

Doing a much needed brake job on my rig. ~100,000 miles

Studied it a lot but cannot fine the answer to my question.

Must I remove the caliper brackets, or will the rotors come off after/with hub removal with the brackets in-place?

The reason I ask, in '07 I replaced the pads and nothing else. I mistakenly tried to remove the caliper bracket bolts and they were basically frozen in place. I maybe backed them out a total of two threads with a 250 ft lb electric impact. After taking it to a shop, they had to heat the bolt/bracket to seat it back in place! Tech said the threads may be factory 'misaligned' (for lack of a better term) or tapered to insure the brackets did not move!

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Old 02-12-2016, 11:40 AM   #2
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The tech was wrong. The bracket bolts are installed with threadlocker on the threads. The bolt must be heated to release the threadlocker. I just finished all brakes last summer. I recommend you use NAPA calipers with new brackets. They are coated to help with rusting and brake seizing. Also replace all five rubber brake lines.
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Old 02-12-2016, 12:40 PM   #3
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ga traveler is absolutely correct. I on the other hand like for posters to know why. A coach that old needs to have the rubber hoses replaced because they deteriorate from the inside. That won't be good and you won't know it until it's done a lot of damage. Then you'll be repeating some of your brake job.

Secondly ga said to replace the calipers. Again because of age it's best to do that.

The brake fluid is the only fluid in a vehicle that does not circulate. That's also why in recent history it has become a somewhat standard practice to simply replace all the brake fluid after 3-4 years as a preventative measure. Brake fluid will absorbe water from the air and that causes rust. Since it does not circulate and can't be filtered like the oil it's just best to get rid of it.

Back in the 70, '80's and even early 90's we'd do a brake job replace the lost fluid but not flush the entire system. That has changed.

Your rotors IMHO and a lot of others say the same thing MUST be machined so the new pads can have a clean true flat surface so proper burnishing (break in) can occur. I won't explain burnishing brakes just google it and be prepared to learn a lot about brakes.

Now since some are not of the same opinion about machining rotors/drums you can skip the machining but your new brakes will never stop as well as they were designed. If you want a longer story PM me and I'll tell you. I'm also sure you can find it on the net as well.

NAPA parts are also top quality. Make sure you ask for their top of the line parts.

TeJay
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Old 02-12-2016, 02:13 PM   #4
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Just came back in from working on it. Heat is your friend. Looking at replacement parts, found that the bolts had thread locker on them and must be heated for removal. Had a Harbor freight propane torch and it did the trick. Still tough to start with a HF 25" breaker bar, but then my air impact did the trick. The original one that I had problems with before came off with just the impact. I will put new thread locker on when it goes back together.

Will rebuild/hone the calipers this afternoon. Will also pull the hub and axle and turn the discs tomorrow.

I just did my Suzuki disc brakes a couple of months ago. Turned the rotors and did the burnishing on them. It sure did make a difference. A very firm and smooth stop. Best in years!

Just needed to do a little more research get some feel good info.

Thanks for all the info
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Old 02-12-2016, 02:21 PM   #5
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Great, you rebuilt the calipers. That's what I will also do but some can't or don't want to try. It's sometimes easier to have them re-built or to buy re-built ones. Sometimes those guys don't do a very good job either. If I do it I'll know it's correct.

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Old 02-12-2016, 02:47 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeJay View Post
ga traveler is absolutely correct. I on the other hand like for posters to know why. A coach that old needs to have the rubber hoses replaced because they deteriorate from the inside. That won't be good and you won't know it until it's done a lot of damage. Then you'll be repeating some of your brake job.

Secondly ga said to replace the calipers. Again because of age it's best to do that.

The brake fluid is the only fluid in a vehicle that does not circulate. That's also why in recent history it has become a somewhat standard practice to simply replace all the brake fluid after 3-4 years as a preventative measure. Brake fluid will absorbe water from the air and that causes rust. Since it does not circulate and can't be filtered like the oil it's just best to get rid of it.

Back in the 70, '80's and even early 90's we'd do a brake job replace the lost fluid but not flush the entire system. That has changed.

Your rotors IMHO and a lot of others say the same thing MUST be machined so the new pads can have a clean true flat surface so proper burnishing (break in) can occur. I won't explain burnishing brakes just google it and be prepared to learn a lot about brakes.

Now since some are not of the same opinion about machining rotors/drums you can skip the machining but your new brakes will never stop as well as they were designed. If you want a longer story PM me and I'll tell you. I'm also sure you can find it on the net as well.

NAPA parts are also top quality. Make sure you ask for their top of the line parts.

TeJay
In the 70's I was the shop foreman at a fairly large Ford garage. We had 35 auto technicians working a single shift, and 42 heavy duty truck technicians split between two shifts. At the time the company policy was to rebuild all brake cylinders and/or calipers, turn all brake drums and/or rotors, and flush the system on every brake job.

At the time I thought it was a bit of overkill. Now it looks like they were just ahead of the times.
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Old 02-12-2016, 03:54 PM   #7
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Thanks for the information. In the teaching area we didn't get onto the technician changes when they happened. It was tough enough to just keep up with the computer technology when it came in.

Man it sounded like you guys had a thriving business. Where were you located??? That had to be a big metropolitan hub of some sorts. Keeping up with 42 truck techs had to be a nightmare. Are they still jumping as they were back then?? I can't believe they are having an easy time finding qualified technicians these days.

When my shop classes had labs there would be 25+ kids all working on stuff. If there was a way something could be screwed up those kids could figure it out. What a learning experience that was. One day a kid broke a caliper bolt off because his ratchet was set to tighten instead of loosen. All I could do was shake my head.

Had another kid come to me after doing an oil change. He said, " I put the oil and filter on and added the oil but it's over filled." I asked him the color of the oil and yes he responded, "Red". He drained the transmission pan and added 5 more quarts of oil to the engine. That was only my second year teaching. That's when I realized that yes some kids really need to be told everything. That never happend again. It was fun!!!

TeJay
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Old 02-12-2016, 05:20 PM   #8
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I am a full blown DIYer. A few years ago when I was in S. FL. I had a brake job done on my '89 S15 jimmy. I was watching the tech as he pulled the calipers out of the box. I said 'aren't they left and right?' doesn't matter he said. Maybe things had change so I let it go. Then they wouldn't bleed, so a master cylinder, still no bleed. Quiting time so other tech pitched in to help. Finally someone noticed the left/right screw up. Made them put the old M Cyl back on.

After that, If I can do it, I will. If I'm over my pay grade, I will take things to a trusted shop, which I did for my Suzuki rear main seal and both rear axle seals.

I called my trusted shop and a Ford dealer about the brakes. Bring it in a we will look at it! Then they always want to replace every thing, with new or reman stuff.

Not that there is anything wrong with that, if they stand behind their work that is probably the way to go. Faster too. I have time and info easy enough fine if you know what you are looking for. This forum has an abundance of good info and I do make use of it. And I save more than enough to pay for almost any special tool, and it's fun to buy new tools!

One axle pulled, one to go.

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Old 02-12-2016, 07:39 PM   #9
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Had the same experience many, many years ago. A friend and i did a brake job on an Rv. We rebuilt the calipers and could not get it to bleed. Wasted a gallon of fluid and nothing. Finally somebody asked us if we reversed the calipers. Sure enough the bleeder screw was on the bottom. That NEVER happened again for me.
Yep. I've built plumed and wired houses from a book. Laid concrete, roofed and sided houses fixed anything and everything because it's cheaper than buying new. Not always successful but it got better the more I fixed. Lessons learned and it's fun as well.

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Old 02-13-2016, 09:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeJay View Post
Thanks for the information. In the teaching area we didn't get onto the technician changes when they happened. It was tough enough to just keep up with the computer technology when it came in.

Man it sounded like you guys had a thriving business. Where were you located??? That had to be a big metropolitan hub of some sorts. Keeping up with 42 truck techs had to be a nightmare. Are they still jumping as they were back then?? I can't believe they are having an easy time finding qualified technicians these days.

When my shop classes had labs there would be 25+ kids all working on stuff. If there was a way something could be screwed up those kids could figure it out. What a learning experience that was. One day a kid broke a caliper bolt off because his ratchet was set to tighten instead of loosen. All I could do was shake my head.

Had another kid come to me after doing an oil change. He said, " I put the oil and filter on and added the oil but it's over filled." I asked him the color of the oil and yes he responded, "Red". He drained the transmission pan and added 5 more quarts of oil to the engine. That was only my second year teaching. That's when I realized that yes some kids really need to be told everything. That never happend again. It was fun!!!

TeJay
The dealership is still thriving, but it's a bit different since Ford got out of the heavy truck business in 1998. They were also an authorized Caterpillar repair facility, but again since Caterpillar has gotten out of the over the road engine business there isn't nearly as much business from that arena. Also back in the 70's it was the only Ford dealer in town. It's still the only one that handles heavy duty trucks, but there are 2 more car dealerships within a 20 mile radius.

They still run 2 shifts in the truck shop and now 2 shifts in the auto shop. There's a lot more "parts replacement" now than there was 40+ years ago. Most engine and transmission jobs that were in house rebuilds years ago are now replacements with factory new or reconditioned units.

I would guess there are now 15 technicians per shift in the car shop, and about the same number on the first shift in the truck department. Second shift in the truck shop is now down to about 6 technicians.

Back in the 70's it was rare to see a motorhome in the truck shop. Now I'll bet it's 20+% of their business. We've had our motorhome in several times over the years when I'm either too lazy or the weather is too bad for me to do the work at home.
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Old 02-13-2016, 11:43 AM   #11
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Got delayed, need a socket to fit one of these, 3-1/4" 8 point axle nut! Neighbor may have one. Hard to find locally!

H
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Old 02-13-2016, 01:01 PM   #12
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I have not seen that exact layout before. Yep it's a big socket but isn't it just about finger tight?? How about a center punch to put a little indentation on the surface then tap it on the side to take the nut off. Yep the correct size socket would be nice for seating everything on assembly but for now.

TeJay
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Old 02-13-2016, 03:30 PM   #13
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Don't think I can do it with a center punch! Looks like inter nut torque is 200'# for a 3 piece setup, Next page says 250'# if it is a 4 piece setup! Will find out when I open it up.

Nothing like exploratory surgery! For those following along at home, this is a Dana 110 Rear End.

The deeper I get into this...

H
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Old 02-13-2016, 04:13 PM   #14
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Looking at your picture, it looks like a single unit nut, like this.

You torque it and back off a specified number of clicks.
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