2004 Ford V10 throwing 171 & 174 codes

[Ernie n Tara]

The vehicle started missing, slowed down, and now will idle just fine. Attempts to start accelerating cause engine to quit at about 1100 RPM - Just shuts down. Starts up immediately again. Fuel cutoff valve reset (pushed button on top) no joy. At least its warm out - help!
Codes are both oxy sensor not switching - fuel control HO2S

[EngineerMike]

If the V10 application uses generic DTCs, this link discusses 0171 which covers one bank of cylinders, 0174 covers the other. If getting both, the common air path and its monitoring (Mass Air Flow sensor, MAF) are likely the related problem causing a lean reading (too much oxygen indicated) in the exhaust. Cleaning the MAF may fix the problem.

[Ernie n Tara]

Mike,
Thanks, I appreciate the response. Do you happen to know where these are likely to be located/what they look like (my mechanic days were before V10's or MAF sensors.) I presume top of engine w/access by removing dog house??
Note - I just had the vehicle serviced. They found fluid - Water?? in the bowl of the air cleaner that may have gotten it dirty.
Ernie

[Ernie n Tara]

I found the MAF sensor Duh! Looking toward cleaning it now.
Tx
Mike.

[tderonne]

Don't go cleaning it just yet.

If you found it you must have looked things over? ALL air getting into the engine has to come through the MAF meter. There aren't any leaks are there? A leak ("unmetered air") will make it appear lean too.

If it is a "bad" MAF it may have been damaged by water, any signs of water in the air filter housing? How's the air filter look? Been raining near you? Water ingestion is a known issue, it manifests itself in a few slightly different ways.

If it is a "bad" MAF, it should run OK with it unplugged. It'll set more codes, but that is good, it'll ignore the MAF and run similar to how speed density systems ran without a MAF. If it runs OK unplugged, you've confirmed it's a MAF issue. A cleaning may then be in order.

That's just the air side. Could be starving for fuel too. A pressure check would confirm that. Could be a plugged filter or a bad pump.

If you know the codes, you may have a ScanGauge? If so, you can look at the fuel trims and see if it's lean all the time, or just under load, or idle, or whatever.

Keep us posted.

[Ernie n Tara]

A Final Note:
The suggestion by E-Mike that the MAF sensor was the problem was correct. I found the grommet around the cable to the sensor (which is located just above the air cleaner - outside the engine compartment) to have been pulled out (MH had just been serviced and it probably happened checking the air filter - something to pay attention to if you have a recent V10 - mine's a 2004 chassis - we did find some water in the air filter, but just dumped it out and went on). I cleaned the sensor (Chemtool carb. cleaner) and replaced the grommet and walla! it worked again. I expect the savings paid for the Scan Gauge and then some; not to mention saving a lost day of vacation.
On that point; Coach Net provided the expected wrecker on request and towed the MH to a local parking lot (~20 mi. & he came 50 mi.) for the night where I accomplished the repair. I failed to notify them I had fixed the problem, assuming I'd have to call them again in the AM. They went ahead and scheduled service by a Ford dealer (50 miles away) and then called me in the AM ready to tow to the dealer. That's real service and won them a customer for life! The first pull easily cost them more than I paid for the tow insurance.
Ernie

[gasser 38]

Glad you are back up and running but do not ignore the water in the air cleaner do you have the revised air snorkel on it. This can cause you trouble later in heavy rain

[DriVer]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernie n Tara I cleaned the sensor (Chemtool carb. cleaner) and replaced the grommet and walla! it worked again.

Ernie, I would not have chosen the Chemtool Carb Cleaner product you used to clean the MAF. This device is extremely mission critical and typically requires a specifically engineered cleaner:

From Chemtool

MASS AIR FLOW AND ELECTRONIC CLEANER
Ideal for cleaning and degreasing printed circuits, switches, relays, rheostats, contact points and diagnostic test equipment. Removes lint, oil and dust from tape heads, tuners, VCR’s, and other electronic equipment. Clean electric motors or components including armatures, windings, and brushes with Electric Motor Cleaner Part #1520.
Part #2206 NET WT. 4.5 oz. Aerosol

DOWNLOAD LINEART - 2206 LA

[Ernie n Tara]

DriVer,
Thanks for the info. When you are in a foreign parking lot, you do tend to use what you have. Didn't mean to advocate
Gasser,
The water was in a small cup formed by the bottom of the air filter - questionable design. May have been condensate or sucked in. The air intake does drain.

[navyblue]

Gaser38 is correct. My 2008 Winnie Voyage had a ECU light and then check engine light. Columbia Ford in Ct has it. The air filter was soaked and MAF Sensor is fried. Ford Tech Support in Michigan told me that there is TSB 04-24-22 that tells dealers to install saxophone looking snorkel on air intake to keep the water(Winnebago coach body design flaw) that creates a venturi effect during medium-heavy rain to suck the water right into MAF/air filter. Winnie says it is a Ford Triton engine problem. Ford says Winnie design problem. Well I in to the tune of $500 for MAF/air filiter/labor and new "snorkel".
If Winnie thinks I am going to roll over they are WRONG. I am sending them a copy of the bill and a copy of the TSB explaining Ford had to design a fix to fix their problem. Dealer told me that all the coaches they installed the "snorkel" on to the Triton didn't have the problem anymore.


NAVYBLUE

[Ernie n Tara]

navyblue,
I'm suspicious. Early V10 air inlets ('90's) had a problem very similar to this one. Ford sold/sells a replacement section that went just below the air cleaner and had a "drip vent" at its lowest point. The config. with dip resulted in the intake having an "S - laid back" shape as viewed from the side. The consequence for these early engines was to ingest water and destroy pistons or valves. Sounds like the same thing to me. Do you have a P/N?
Ernie
Have you looked at the below info???
iRV2 Forums > THE CHASSIS CLUB FORUMS > Ford Motorhome Chassis Forum Ford latest water ingestion fix (pictures)

[navyblue]

Ernie N Tara,

Can't be used on mine because Ford changed the air filter so the 6" intake(upper left side of air box as viewed from front of coach) points horizontally towards the right side of the coach(passenger side) avoiding the water that comes through the grill BUT they also added an additional 2' horizontal intake on bottom right(as viewed from front of coach) that points guess where? Bueller? Bueller? Bueller?
YES !!! The 2" intakes points right towards the grill where the water comes through in heavy rain/wind. What a bunch of putzs !!!
I am going to fabricate 6" and 2" diameter tubes on my own that are "L" shaped so horizontal rain can not come in horizontally and put a drip hole at the bottom of each "L" for any rain they may get in

Mike (NAVYBLUE)

[KC1BUD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernie n Tara I expect the savings paid for the Scan Gauge and then some; not to mention saving a lost day of vacation.

Some auto parts stores will let you "borrow" the scanner. Auto Zone is one of them. Basically you "buy" it, in case you "forget" to bring it back for a full refund.

Scanners will not read security code related engine problems.
My son's GM car forgets his key that is programmed to start the car. After market scanner didn't read the code. It took a GM scanner to read the code.

The simple solution for him is, when his car forgets, all he needs to do is turn the ignition on for 10 to 15 minutes and it reprograms itself.