2014 Cruise Control

[Garyp47]

I have a new 2014 Winnebago 26HE which is built on the Ford F53 chassis. To me, the cruise control speed deadband is way too tight. Before I can even think about it, it will downshift into 3rd gear on a slight hill and rev up past 4500 rpm when the cruise is set. Also, when at speed and in cruise, going down a hill will cause a downshift into a lower gear to slow the rig down pretty much as quickly as it downshifts going up a hill. This is very irritating so I called the Ford Tech Support and their answer was this is how it works, it's a Ford and that's how our engineers want it. I asked him if he ever drove a F53 chassis under a motorhome and he said no. I asked him if his engineer ever did and he couldn't obviously answer.

I have never owed a vehicle that downshifted to slow you down while in cruise. The tech told me Fords do. Plus he argued semantics with me over "slowing down" and "controlling speed". When you downshift from 5th to 3rd on a slight downhill road, you can feel the engine brake the rig, thereby slowing it down. I guess maybe the "brakes" are on and the brake lights aren't. That could be a problem.

Living in Arizona, we have nothing but hills here and pretty much the same in California and Utah. So while in the cruise mode, the transmission gets a good workout along with the engine.

The solution from the Ford tech was to not use the cruise control if I didn't like the way it worked. Anyone else have an opinion on the cruise control operation?

[Skip426]

In 34 years working at a Chrysler dealership I found that talking to most engineers was a waste of breath. 1 in a hundred will be of any real help.
The option of "soft cruise" , one that allows 5>7 mph drop before forcing a downshift is available on diesel chassis, and programmable, with shop scan tools. You might have to ask at a dealership.
My mini van will do the downshift to control speed while set , but at 10 mph over , set speed.
Hope someone can provide the info for your chassis. Safe travels.

[subford]

I do not know anything about how a 2014 F53 is set up. If it has the TPS like the 90's Ford trucks I have heard that you can file out the mounting holes and turn the TPS some and it will wait a little longer before the downshift as that will change the voltage a little.
Was always going to try it but have never got around to it yet.

[TeJay]

Garyp47,

We have a 2014 Vista on the F-53 chassis. We have about 7,000 miles on it and have experienced the same issues but it sounds like ours is not as bad. Last month as we were leaving St. Louis (the hilly area going west) heading home we crested one of the hills and I was going to let it gain some speed for the next hill and WAM!! it down shifted into 3rd and the RPM'S went up to over 5,000. That happened two or three times. I don't like it either.

I called Ford CS and got nowhere. The tech did recommend a dealer in MO so I spoke to them. They said about what you heard. It's designed to do the DS so you have engine breaking. It seems to severe and I still don't like it.

I had read about the TUNE so I sent a message to Mike. He assured me that their basic tune for the V-10 would solve most of those down shifting issues. I'll copy his response to this post.



Post from Mike at 5 STAR TUNE,

Thank you for inquiring; We can correct 95% of the goofy shifting that your motorhome does during road trips. The SCT X4 would be a nice fit for your RV. See here for some specific tune details Got a V10 RV » 5 Star Tuning. A RV Daily-Tow type map/ tune will net you better pulling power & better shifting from tip in through 4000 RPM's and can net some better economy. The RV just with an 87 Octane fuel tune will run with more power through the entire RPM range and much better shifting.

More info here http://50.116.98.210/~fivestar/wp-content/uploads/New-FearNoMountain.pdf

Device also acts as a diagnostic code reader for any Ford vehicle. Another very flexible advantage is it can be used on any Ford Vehicles. So down the road if you upgrade your vehicle to a newer Ford model either device would still function on it. Also device does not need to be left plugged in and can be returned to stock when you like.

Pricing for X4's custom tuned are $415.00 plus $6 to $10 shipping to lower 48 states. Canada shipping is a Flat $35 ship rate via USPS. "



Hope this helps answer some of OUR problems. I haven't ordered it yet but will soon.


TeJay

[Mekanic]

since the fuel with be shut off completely when the throttle blade is closed completely (above 20MPH) the forced downshift going down hill doesn't hurt anything.
It should save you some money on brakes and make is easier to keep your RV under control.

I do wish the OEMS would let the end users have a some adjustments on cruise control ECM programming.

[Garyp47]

Thanks TeJay for the info. I watched the videos and what a difference going up hill. One downshift and the rig maintained/gained speed with the 5 STAR TUNE program. Imagine that! Maybe the Ford engineers have their hands tied and aren't allowed to think or design something practical for the specific application.

Please let me know how this works for you, especially if it also makes a difference on the downhill shifting while in cruise. I wonder if this would affect the warranty?

This brings up an entirely new subject. It seem to me they are overly conservative in their oil and filter replacement interval. The tech I spoke to pretty much said if you don't follow the recommended oil change intervals, good luck if something happens to the engine. With the quality of oil we have available, especially the synthetics, every 6 months seems a bit excessive. He also indicated you better keep records and receipts for the oil and filters you purchase plus document when you perform the maintenance. I do my own maintenance whenever I can and I've already changed the oil and filter in mine. And I kept the receipts.

Gary

[subford]

Before installing the 5 STAR TUNE program you might want to read this thread:
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f23/warra...ue-207694.html

/

[Garyp47]

Thanks Mekanic for the input. I would have to disagree a wee bit on whether or not it hurts anything to force the downshifts. To me, the unnecessary downshifts to slow you down just add more wear and tear to the drivetrain. I would rather take advantage of the gravity and gain a few miles per hour. I don't drive my vehicle at it's or the legal limits and hate to waste the free momentum. I want to decide when it's time to slow down or switching to tow/haul and/or hitting the brakes The downhill energy is all dissipated by the drivetrain and thereby totally wasted.

They should give you a few option settings depending on your preferences. That would make sense. But, they feel they know what's best for us.

Gary

[Mekanic]

Originally Posted by Garyp47

Thanks Mekanic for the input. I would have to disagree a wee bit on whether or not it hurts anything to force the downshifts. To me, the unnecessary downshifts to slow you down just add more wear and tear to the drivetrain. I would rather take advantage of the gravity and gain a few miles per hour. I don't drive my vehicle at it's or the legal limits and hate to waste the free momentum. I want to decide when it's time to slow down or switching to tow/haul and/or hitting the brakes The downhill energy is all dissipated by the drivetrain and thereby totally wasted.

They should give you a few option settings depending on your preferences. That would make sense. But, they feel they know what's best for us.

Gary

No That wasn't what I meant. If you were on a shallow or short incline where you would Only gain a few MPH then I agree. Its not going to hurt anything.
I was think about real downhill grades where is usually a Curve at the bottom.
I Have Always wanted a Cruise that you could program to ones liking.

[TeJay]

Garyp47,
I've serviced all my vehicles and have never had any problems with warranty issues. In most cases it's usually to much trouble for the manufacturers to push it to far with warranty. I've also kept my receipts but never needed to produce one. Yes S##T does happen and one can get burned but one can also fret yourself into an early grave by worrying about every dotted "I" and crossed "T". I'm just not going to go there.

As far as the 5-STAR TUNE. I'll do it probable sometime this fall and we are still under warranty.
I'm friends with the local SM at the Ford garage. According to his information there had never been a V-10 engine failure that was attributed to any factory defects. I don't think he'd lie to me. He could have just said that they have had very, very few failures. The V-10 has been around since sometime in 1998-99 and has a stellar track record with few issues. They went to the 3-valve engine in 2006-07 and it has proven to be even better.

I also spoke to me Nephew in Detroit. He's an engineer at the plant that makes the F-150 transmission. His take on the tune was simply this. Ford set the engine up as a truck engine. They try to cover the entire range of how those engines will be used and of course they can't or choose not to set them up differently for MH applications. He also said that they will always error on the side of caution. In other words maybe they can do some tuning to adjust up/down shifting, fuel economy HP, torque but chose not to. If they have a number of complaints across the board they might start looking at making changes.

Back in 1989 we had a Pontiac Grand Am (4-cyl engine). It would go into TCL (torque converter lock-up) around 26 MPH. Because the engine was small and it locked-up at such a slow RPM the engine would shutter until it built some RPMs. Most cars at that time shifted above 30 MPH with no problems. I complained at the dealer. Their response was that all of them lock-ed up around 25 MPH. It was not a safety issue, like a bad seat belt so they did nothing. About 6 months later I was in again and one of the Techs said that they would put a new chip in the car to adjust the shifting points. That fixed the problem.

Yes, before some chime in here, we are talking about changing timing, fuel trim and spark advance plus the shifting parameters. These things are considered playing with fire. Yes if you lean the motor to much bad things happen. It makes no sense to me for 5-STAR to set their parameters to the point that engines began failing. They'd fold their doors before long.

Many have reported installing the tune long before they are out of warranty and have had no problems.

As far as the oil change interval. James has reported that after they switched to a full synthetic they had significant wear particle reduction in the fleet of vehicles that he's been responsible for. He has oil analysis records to prove it.

If you have an engine issue Ford will send an oil sample for analysis and use that to determine if you are at fault because of extending your change interval. A $25 oil analysis is cheap for them and will hold up in court. It's kind of like the DNA for your engine.

TeJay

[Garyp47]

TeJay,
Thanks so much for the info. Having some inside information definitely helps in reducing the worry factor. I feel a lot more confident now. I did some research on this drivetrain before I bought the unit and really couldn't find anything bad on it. The motor and trans look to be rock solid and if anything were to happen it probably would have already.

It just bothers me that they take the one size fits all approach. Winnebago is probably to blame in this one as it astounds me that they really have no input as to how these things actually function. Especially when it's just firmware.

As far as the oil is concerned I will probably just go ahead and change it every 6 months. It won't hurt and it's not that expensive if I do it myself. Too bad it's such a pain in the butt to not make a mess when you drain the oil. I have a new plan for the next change as I wasted an entire blanket after I sloshed around the drain pan a bit. Luckily the oil came right up off my driveway and you can't tell at all. Plan B is to cut a hole in drain pan #1, secure/shim it so it fits firmly on the cross member and let it drain into drain pan #2.

The last thing I want is to get lawyers involved.

I'll give you a couple days break and then pop some more questions at you if that's OK. You have been exceptionally helpful and no better to get advice from than someone that's been there and done that.

Thanks again,

Gary

[TeJay]

Gary,
Google this, "Futomo oil drain valves" I got one and it's a snap to change the oil by draining it through a tube. Somebody mentioned that they didn't want to take a chance that the valve could get knocked off and drain all the oil. The drain plug in my V-10 is well protected. If I did hit something like a railroad tie obviously I'd stop to make sure what damage I might have done. I'm not worried.

TeJay

[Mekanic]

Originally Posted by TeJay

Gary,
Google this, "Futomo oil drain valves" I got one and it's a snap to change the oil by draining it through a tube. Somebody mentioned that they didn't want to take a chance that the valve could get knocked off and drain all the oil. The drain plug in my V-10 is well protected. If I did hit something like a railroad tie obviously I'd stop to make sure what damage I might have done. I'm not worried.

TeJay

X2 I agree 1000%

[Gordon Dewald]

My 450 does similar shifting when in Tow/Haul mode.

It downshifts once the rpm builds a bit on the on the downside.

On the upside it holds the gear until the throttle is pretty much wide open and then when it shifts it snaps down a couple gears.

I dont think this is the same as what you are experiencing (not familiar with Ford Chassis) but it does make me keep an eye on when I am using Tow/Haul and cruise. Most of the time I opt for manual footfeed as I like driving the truck and trailer.