|
|
12-02-2016, 08:47 AM
|
#1
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 165
|
460 RV headers on the cheap?
So I just picked up a 98 Winnebago 33ft Chieftain, Ford F53 460/E4OD with only 30K miles in pristine condition. I've heard a lot of good reviews on the Banks headers and exhaust but have a hard time justifying the cost.
I see Gibson, Hedman, etc used to make the F53 motorhome headers but are now discontinued. But in looking at Headmans F53, F250, F350, etc truck headers, they look almost identical, except for the tail end where it bolts to the truck catalytic converter. Mine doesn't have a cat.
Has anyone tried truck headers on a F53 motorhome? Links below, with/without air injection.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...view/make/ford
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...view/make/ford
And the discontinued RV headers.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/hed-89716
|
|
|
|
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!
iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!
You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!
|
12-02-2016, 11:08 AM
|
#2
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,700
|
If you do install other than Banks headers, make sure you fabricate a heat shield for the left frame rail (fuel and brake lines) and insulate both the e-brake cable and the tranny shift cable. I can guarantee failure of one or both if they are not protected. Very difficult to find and replace. Your starter will also need a heat shield.
Make sure the headers have a O2 sensor bung in the left side of the "Y" pipe. Half way between the collector and the joining of the "Y" pipe. You'll also need a O2 sensor extension cable.
Banks is the only header manufacture that makes a 5/8" header flange, so you don't have to use header gaskets. Header gaskets are a failure, just waiting to happen.
Are you starting to get the idea why Banks is so expensive?
I've been running the Banks Power Pack on my 95 F53 for 13 years with no failures. And the Power Pack kit fits perfectly with all the necessary items for proper instillation.
Richard
|
|
|
12-02-2016, 04:47 PM
|
#3
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Newcastle, WA
Posts: 288
|
The Banks headers have long collectors, that are I believe designed for low end torque performance, which is what you want for an rv. Banks header packages go on sale at times and that is when I bought mine for the 454. My wish was to avoid the problems with the cast iron oem manifolds. The maintenance on those over time were more labor intensive for me than installing the Banks system. You might want to call Banks and see if they have any deals.
__________________
Kevin n Chriss
2015 Newmar 3103 Bay Star -The Pay Car-
1993 Fleetwood 28T Bounder -The Flounder-
|
|
|
12-03-2016, 07:00 AM
|
#4
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 165
|
Richard,
I looked through the Banks installation manual and saw the heat shield info. No doubt Banks puts out a quality product with great R&D in it. I just cant justify the extra cost on an older RV.
I do plan on some trips through mountains, so headers would be an advantage. I found some who have installed the Hedmans online and were happy with it too.
Maybe I'll end up being the Guinea pig for the F250 headers.
|
|
|
12-03-2016, 09:27 AM
|
#5
|
Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Retired Fire Service RVer's
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 797
|
Make sure you check out Doug Thorley Headers. Not sure if they're still in business but that's who I bought from 14 yrs. ago and have been problem free.
__________________
Peter
1997 F53 Adventurer 37rw
IAFF L-792 (Retired)
|
|
|
12-04-2016, 07:59 AM
|
#6
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 165
|
Thorley is still around and I got a response from them, but theirs are still near $1k and not even stainless.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt46
Make sure you check out Doug Thorley Headers. Not sure if they're still in business but that's who I bought from 14 yrs. ago and have been problem free.
|
|
|
|
12-05-2016, 08:13 AM
|
#7
|
Senior Member
Thor Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: IL
Posts: 119
|
Your opinion on the benefit
I have a '16 Ford 6.8L with the 6-speed.
I've heard a lot of good things about Banks. Here's my question: did the claimed 70 hp gain, about 20% over what Ford claims make a difference to you? Do you notice?
My mechanic - who is a big fan of Banks - raised the the point of is that gain worth that price and would I really notice?
Looking for your perspective. Thanks.
|
|
|
12-05-2016, 02:29 PM
|
#8
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,700
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD11
I have a '16 Ford 6.8L with the 6-speed.
I've heard a lot of good things about Banks. Here's my question: did the claimed 70 hp gain, about 20% over what Ford claims make a difference to you? Do you notice?
My mechanic - who is a big fan of Banks - raised the the point of is that gain worth that price and would I really notice?
Looking for your perspective. Thanks.
|
I'll assume that question is directed at me.
My Banks install is on a 1995 460, not a V10.
I would do it again in a heart beat. It turned my slug into fun ride. Than last year I replaced the ol 460 with a 528 stroker engine. That would be 7.5 liters to 8.6 liters. Really fun ride!
You can't put a price on "boy toys".
If you have to ask value, then it's not for you.
Richard
|
|
|
12-05-2016, 07:32 PM
|
#9
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 180
|
I recently installed banks on my 96. Very high quality stuff! Thorleys almost as much coin, with the hassle of gaskets. My advise, spring for Banks, try to get a deal, you won't regret it. I put some cheaper, non stainless, headers on my 97 expedition and they rotted out by the third year. Put quality stainless on my truck, and no problems. By the way, the power difference.....very noticeable. If my engine wasn't only 2700 miles old, I would put a stroker in too.
|
|
|
12-06-2016, 08:17 AM
|
#10
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 165
|
In looking through posts on headers in the ford drivetrain, it seems the 460 log manifolds are very restrictive in the upper rpm range.
I'm more familiar with the latest gen GM motors, but it seems like the more recent GM, Ford, etc motors have much better designs direct from the factory and probably wont see as much improvement on an unmodified motor.
That being said, I put stock corvette manifolds on a 6.0 truck motor, combined with a mild tune and saw about a 15% increase in hp.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD11
I have a '16 Ford 6.8L with the 6-speed.
I've heard a lot of good things about Banks. Here's my question: did the claimed 70 hp gain, about 20% over what Ford claims make a difference to you? Do you notice?
My mechanic - who is a big fan of Banks - raised the the point of is that gain worth that price and would I really notice?
Looking for your perspective. Thanks.
|
|
|
|
12-06-2016, 10:57 AM
|
#11
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Newcastle, WA
Posts: 288
|
The big gain in hp is at high rpm, being as I never ran my 454 at high rpm I did not notice much change with my driving habits. The 5-10% hp gain at lower rpm was not really noticeable to me in a 15k lb vehicle with oem maximum hp of 250. I am not denying the hp gain, it was just not a wow event for me. Since installed about 14 years ago I have never had any leaks or broken studs, which was why the Banks headers were purchased.
__________________
Kevin n Chriss
2015 Newmar 3103 Bay Star -The Pay Car-
1993 Fleetwood 28T Bounder -The Flounder-
|
|
|
12-06-2016, 09:26 PM
|
#12
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,700
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steady_Rest
The big gain in hp is at high rpm, being as I never ran my 454 at high rpm I did not notice much change with my driving habits. The 5-10% hp gain at lower rpm was not really noticeable to me in a 15k lb vehicle with oem maximum hp of 250. I am not denying the hp gain, it was just not a wow event for me. Since installed about 14 years ago I have never had any leaks or broken studs, which was why the Banks headers were purchased.
|
What are you calling high RPM?
Look at the 460 Banks chart listed below. Nothing high about those RPM.
HP with Banks Peeks at 3600. Max torque at 1800. I run my 460/528 about
3200 when pulling steep hills. I cruse at 2400 which shows about 30 HP gain.
Richard
|
|
|
12-07-2016, 10:54 AM
|
#13
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 165
|
My understanding is that Richard has it right. While the majority of improvement is in higher rpm ranges, due to better flow, less backpressure, etc.. the design of the headers provides better scavenging with toque/hp increases even at the lower rpm.
And if someone here needs an exhaust upgrade, it's a guy with 528 cubic inches.
|
|
|
12-07-2016, 11:02 AM
|
#14
|
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 165
|
Well, I think I'm going to order a pair of these and see if they'll fit with minimal mods.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/h...view/make/ford
But first, I'm going to try disconnecting the AIR tubes, see if it throws and codes. Thinking if I leave the electric parts, it wont notice the lack of upstream air injection. If not, I can get one with the AIR tubes for $400.
Probably wont install till it gets warm this spring, but that gives me time to stip/coat them.
Also going with the Stage 8 fasteners and Remflex gaskets to prevent leaks.
Header Gaskets 460 V8 1988-98-Broncograveyard.com
|
|
|
|
|
Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
|
|
Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
» Recent Discussions |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|