4R100 to Allison?

[sirpurrcival]

This is day 3 of my 3 week RV holiday. I am home typing this email because on day 2, my 4R100 has failed on my RV once again making it a total of 3 time since I bought this RV 5 years ago.

1. failed on my right after purchase so I attributed it to just being old and perhaps neglected.

2. this failed about a year after replacement and I attributed it to a cheap rebuild

3. failed on me yesterday while climbing a hill. probable fluid pump issue Tons of smoke and fluid puking everywhere followed by a 200 km tow back to home turf.

I have pretty much decided that this must be an engineering issue with the real culprit being an RV that is just too heavy for the transmission.

Has anyone replaced one of these with an Allison unit? I am hearing that this might be possible. Any thoughts, I don't want to continue on this merry go round and I either fix it once and for all or sell it.

[Peter27C]

Pretty hard to make a comment with the lack of info.


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[thedjjack]

Maybe swap a 5 or 6 speed standard? That is the way I am going... hold back on hills, no heat, no slipping, never blowup and when they do you can usually drive home... zf6 is cheap cheap cheap.... (hydraulic clutch pedal easier than the computer stuff needed to swap in a modern automajic)...

what motor? ford engines have lots of bell housing....

who rebuilt this? should not have blown up 2!!

[Hikerdogs]

Originally Posted by sirpurrcival

This is day 3 of my 3 week RV holiday. I am home typing this email because on day 2, my 4R100 has failed on my RV once again making it a total of 3 time since I bought this RV 5 years ago.

1. failed on my right after purchase so I attributed it to just being old and perhaps neglected.

2. this failed about a year after replacement and I attributed it to a cheap rebuild

3. failed on me yesterday while climbing a hill. probable fluid pump issue Tons of smoke and fluid puking everywhere followed by a 200 km tow back to home turf.

I have pretty much decided that this must be an engineering issue with the real culprit being an RV that is just too heavy for the transmission.

Has anyone replaced one of these with an Allison unit? I am hearing that this might be possible. Any thoughts, I don't want to continue on this merry go round and I either fix it once and for all or sell it.

The 4R100 transmission has had a pretty good reputation for standing up under the load of a motorhome. However there were several upgrades along the way. Ford wasn't even authorizing rebuilding the 4R100's at the dealer level. If they needed more than minor work Ford recommended a complete transmission with the latest upgrades.

They also wouldn't replace a transmission without replacing the cooler and adding an inline filter. The last couple years the 4R100 was used it had a spin on external filter similar to an oil filter.

Did either of your rebuilds include the factory upgrades, a new cooler, and external filter? Another possibility is that the rebuilder used the wrong filter in the pan. The motorhome version of the 4R100 has a deeper pan than the version used in a 2 wheel drive truck or automobile. It requires a filter with a longer pickup tube. It's the same one used in 4 wheel drive trucks.

If they used the wrong filter it's possible the pump couldn't get a sufficient amount of fluid, especially under a heavy load and while climbing a hill.

[sirpurrcival]

Originally Posted by Peter27C

Pretty hard to make a comment with the lack of info.


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What would you like to know?

[sirpurrcival]

Originally Posted by Hikerdogs

The 4R100 transmission has had a pretty good reputation for standing up under the load of a motorhome. However there were several upgrades along the way. Ford wasn't even authorizing rebuilding the 4R100's at the dealer level. If they needed more than minor work Ford recommended a complete transmission with the latest upgrades.

They also wouldn't replace a transmission without replacing the cooler and adding an inline filter. The last couple years the 4R100 was used it had a spin on external filter similar to an oil filter.

Did either of your rebuilds include the factory upgrades, a new cooler, and external filter? Another possibility is that the rebuilder used the wrong filter in the pan. The motorhome version of the 4R100 has a deeper pan than the version used in a 2 wheel drive truck or automobile. It requires a filter with a longer pickup tube. It's the same one used in 4 wheel drive trucks.

If they used the wrong filter it's possible the pump couldn't get a sufficient amount of fluid, especially under a heavy load and while climbing a hill.

I took this vehicle to a heavy duty truck repair facility for the last transmission. They don't do the actual rebuilds but I am pretty confident that they know what is required in terms of a transmission for what is essentially a Ford truck. What's more, I have a supplementary transmission cooler complete with fan. Their early suspicion is that the fluid pump may have failed which the Owner of the shop said is not uncommon. He has been in the business for 45 years so I tend to trust what he says. They certainly are a busy shop. I can't answer the specifics that you asked but then again I am not a transmission guy either.

[sirpurrcival]

Originally Posted by thedjjack

Maybe swap a 5 or 6 speed standard? That is the way I am going... hold back on hills, no heat, no slipping, never blowup and when they do you can usually drive home... zf6 is cheap cheap cheap.... (hydraulic clutch pedal easier than the computer stuff needed to swap in a modern automajic)...

what motor? ford engines have lots of bell housing....

who rebuilt this? should not have blown up 2!!

It is the first year of the V-10 Triton - 2v 275HP give or take.

[Peter27C]

To start with, what is the make, model and year of your RV. What is its usual weight? Are you operating close to or over max gross? Do you pull a toad?


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[chboone]

Was the torque converter replaced with each rebuild? Torque converter should be replaced when Trans is rebuilt/replaced. When I bought my Dolphin it had 35,000 + on it now has 60,000 + never had any Trans problems. Last time I weighed it fully loaded it was 20,560#

[Murf2u]

"Tons of smoke and fluid puking everywhere."

That's just too much heat, as was stated, check and / or upgrade the cooler, you can't have too much cooling capacity in an application like this.

Any transmission will fail once the fluid overheats.

[jesilvas]

I have 375K miles on an original 4R100 in a pickup, towing, country, and city driving. BUT I watch my temps, and don't let them climb over 210*F. You were way over that.

You will need an adapter plate and a transmission controller module to go to an Allison, but if you're going to do that, just go to a 6R140, way better.

[Hikerdogs]

Another thing you might consider is adding a transmission temperature gauge, The newer models come with one from the factory. I installed Banks gauge in our 2001 motorhome.


Banks Power | >>DynaFact® Trans Oil Temp Gauge

[Mark Kovalsky]

Originally Posted by sirpurrcival

Has anyone replaced one of these with an Allison unit? I am hearing that this might be possible. Any thoughts, I don't want to continue on this merry go round and I either fix it once and for all or sell it.

Yes, it's possible. Given enough time and money I could install ANY transmission in your motorhome.

Nobody makes a kit to do this, and I don't know of any that have been done. So you'll have to invent everything as you go.

[AustraliaF53]

Originally Posted by thedjjack

Maybe swap a 5 or 6 speed standard? That is the way I am going... hold back on hills, no heat, no slipping, never blowup and when they do you can usually drive home... zf6 is cheap cheap cheap.... (hydraulic clutch pedal easier than the computer stuff needed to swap in a modern automajic)...

I am seriously considering the ZF6 if/when my 4R100 (or TC) bites the dust, I vaguely remember Ford did these with the V10, but never on the F53. My concerns would be:

1. Clutch strength/longevity (should be OK given V10 is only used in heavy duty applications)

2. Gearing - remembering the TC is a torque multiplier a stick shift would need (IMHO) a much lower 1st and reverse gears than the 4R100

Andrew
2000 Australian Winnebago Explorer 31' on a 1999 F53 V10 20.5k lbs