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03-14-2016, 09:39 PM
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#29
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,281
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03-15-2016, 05:33 AM
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#30
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Michigan
Posts: 778
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jjSpeedwagon
Well? First of all you don't own a v-10 with new 6 speed and you clearly stated you have no intentions of getting one. So you should never recommend something that you have no experience with. As I stated above my experience with the new 6 speed tranny works really well and wouldn't fool with something that isn't broke. I can take the $$ of a new tuner and spend it on what we bought the coach for. That would be my advice from my experience .
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03-15-2016, 11:43 AM
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#31
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Member
Forest River Owners Club
Join Date: Dec 2015
Posts: 68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LVRVLUVR
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What kind of mpg do you get with your Concord?
__________________
Janice & John
2016 Coachmen Concord 33' DS300
2010 JK Sahara 2.5 lift
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03-15-2016, 02:49 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Pensacola FL
Posts: 1,451
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Just a heads up. There are coaches out there with some malfunction issues. ie The brake module issue and the check engine light coming on. The owner of the coach with the brake issue has stated that Ford has a programming fix for that issue forthcoming. If you have a coach with the check engine light I would wait at least 1000 miles of driving the coach without the light reoccurring before doing any firmware upgrades on your coach. When my coach was at the Ford dealer for the check engine light the tech had the Ford OBDII computer hooked up to the coach and it could tell everything that was going on and had been done to the coach. I don't want anyone to get into a brake or check engine light situation and Ford saying your on your own since you've changed the firmware.
I had a 2014 Coach with the 5 Star and now a 2016 6 speed. Frankly the only possible improvement I can see 5 Star doing that you'll be able to tell from the seat of your pants is a mileage improvement. The 6 speed in stock form is that much better than the 5 Speed . Most certainly I will wait for Ford to debug the known issues before considering upgrading.
__________________
Brenda & AL
2017 Thor Venetian, T42 "Groot"
2020 Chevy Sonic, 2019 KTM 790 Duke
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03-15-2016, 04:00 PM
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#33
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lowell, Arkansas
Posts: 7,301
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z3406,
And that approach makes perfect sense. Any issues with the engine or for that matter the transmission will be dealt with by Ford because it is under warranty.
Back in the mid 80's the manufacturers were going through a very, very steep learning curve when it came to the computer controlled systems. I had a book that listed all the CHIP changes for all vehicles.
I don't remember the exact vehicle or engine but for one model year for one manufacturer for one engine size there were 8-10 pages of computer CHIP changes to fix "Driveability" problems. We're talking about 500-600 or more CHIPS to fix issues but only when the consumer complained. Things like, "It stumbles on acceleration from a dead stop" Or "Stumbles on acceleration when passing". There were lots of fixes for those issues. They eventually solved that by doing a flash drive or computer dump from the internet.
If you think they get it right the first time guess again. The consumer is a hot test bed for new issues.
I am not privy to what percentage of this 6-speed transmission is actually a NEW design or just old tested stuff that has been redesigned and carried over. At any rate there are changes to the 6-speed and there may be some issues now or later that arise as it gets further testing by the consumer.
Some out there really believe that once something is released for production that it should work flawlessly with no issues what so ever. Well that's rare when it happens. Some things are changed slightly so not much can break. Most items have been field tested by the consumers for years. Items or systems new to production are the ones that will/may break as the CONSUMER continues the testing process.
We have already had the discussion regarding voided warranties due to non- authorized MODS. So we don't need to take that trip again.
TeJay
__________________
TeJay Auto Instructor/4-yrs USAF/ Liz: RN/ WBGO 2014 Vista 30T/ F-53/CHF/5-Star/Koni * Bella & Izzy * Golden /Cocker mix/ Louie The Cat* All Retired
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03-15-2016, 04:38 PM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 8,055
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FWIW - the "flawless" cranks are one thing. The other is folks like me who understand all engineering is a matter of making choices to optimize one thing over another.
The early times you talk about were at least in part due to implementing the ability to change the stuff in the chips both in control and measurement. Somebody always makes some decisions for a "safe" path through all the variables while meeting the legal requirements, marketing requirements, and the practical one of having something run in the first place. Every one of those chips tweaked one thing like fuel economy or pollution output to make the unit more driveable. A big difference between back then and today is the control components can now store and process a lot more data while making many of the tuning decisions on the fly. In effect they have a bunch of chips installed and pick the right one for the occasion (no, that is not how it is really done).
Folks like 5 Star Tune change the emphasis compared to the factory decision parameters. They do not know more than the factory these days but they can make different choices about how to react to a given set of parameters.
The question I have is with the current state of self adaptive software. We may have reached the point where there really is no gain because the software comes to the same conclusions as what the older dumb software would be set to. That is assuming we are getting self adaptive software by now. It will be interesting to see. ;-)
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03-15-2016, 05:25 PM
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#35
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lowell, Arkansas
Posts: 7,301
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northermark,
Thanks that was a very interesting perspective. I sure don't pretend to understand all that was and for sure these days is going on. I was just caught in the middle as an instructor saddled with trying to understand then teach kids how to fix what was being produced and sold to the public.
The technicians in the early days were scrambling to catch up as were all of us. I had 10 years teaching before they made the plunge into complete computer controls by 1980. Even that was somewhat gradual until the mid 90's when most everything went to EFI. Since then it's been refining and creating more bells and whistles. Seems like a lifetime ago for sure.
You may be correct on how much 5-star can improve now. According to 5-star there's 110 different CPU CODES that are being used. When they said, "Being used" I'm not sure if that was across the RV part or the entire line of F-53 V-10's. My guess is it's across the entire field of V-10 usage.
If that's the case they may be able to work on specific RV applications for the V-10. I guess some we'll see. Somebody did say that, "Anything can be improved."
TeJay
__________________
TeJay Auto Instructor/4-yrs USAF/ Liz: RN/ WBGO 2014 Vista 30T/ F-53/CHF/5-Star/Koni * Bella & Izzy * Golden /Cocker mix/ Louie The Cat* All Retired
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03-15-2016, 07:16 PM
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#36
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Diamond Bar, CA
Posts: 757
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I have been hoping that 5-Star would come through on their word last Fall that they would have a big improvement for the 5 speed transmission's shifting problems. Ford built a 5 speed transmission that almost never will use 4th gear. I live in So. Calif. and always have to drive over mountains to go anywhere and with a 55 MPH speed limit when using CC (Cruise Control) the downshifts were 5th to 3rd. In 2014 when out of state I observed when my speed was above 61 MPH the transmission would downshift from 5th to 4th and it could handle the hill but only at WOT. Unfortunately hills and mountains in North America are not a straight 6% climb, they flatten out for a bit and then resume the climb. When the climb flattened out a bit and my speed was at the CC speed it would upshift to 5th and then downshift again a second or two later. Turning Tow Haul on or off made no difference, if the throttle backed of to 99% or 98% of WOT the transmission would upshift. This hunting is constant if I use CC on roads where 4th could maintain my speed at 80% or 70% of WOT but lose speed in 5th. Below 61 MPH it is 5th to 3rd downshifts, and above 61 MPH it briefly uses 4th at only WOT.
I asked 5 Star if they could reprogram the transmission shifting to downshift to 4th and stay there when I turned Tow Haul on, and resume 5th when I turned Tow Haul off. The best option would be a paddle shifter where I could manually control transmission shifting when needed. Sadly, the 5th to 3rd downshifts and constant hunting when on grades that were too much for 5th gives me 6.5 MPG average per tank of fuel and over the 21K miles I have driven the RV.
Please, 5 Star devise some remedy which can force the transmission to use 4th at part throttle, not just WOT, unless 4th is the weakest part of the 5 speed tranny and more than a few hours of cumulative 4th gear use will blow up the transmission.
__________________
2012 Bay Star 2901, 2 ACs, 5.5KW Onan, 765W solar & Outback FM-60, 800 AH Lifeline AGMs & Magnum MS2812 + AGS + BMK, Koni FSDs, Safe-T-Plus, Super Steer Rear Track Bar, MCD Duo shades w/powered cockpit, remodeled galley, Sumo springs and 2008 Tacoma 4x4 toad.
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03-20-2016, 11:45 PM
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#37
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2016
Posts: 858
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I think 5 star made a world of difference with my 5 speed, I can stay in 4th and 5th gear longer than before and it never shifts below 3rd, no more screaming in the hills and I tow 6000 lbs.
Thanks 5 star, just wonder what they will do with the 6 speed, maybe they can get back the 42 lost HP..
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03-21-2016, 05:27 AM
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#38
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lowell, Arkansas
Posts: 7,301
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Don't see why 5 Star couldn't get back some of that HP. It was probably a change due to EPA emission standards.
Just helped a friend install the TUNE in his RV and he said, "Thanks a bunch. It feels like I'm driving a sports car instead of an RV." His words not mine.
TeJay
__________________
TeJay Auto Instructor/4-yrs USAF/ Liz: RN/ WBGO 2014 Vista 30T/ F-53/CHF/5-Star/Koni * Bella & Izzy * Golden /Cocker mix/ Louie The Cat* All Retired
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03-21-2016, 05:56 AM
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#39
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 1,125
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I think I'm going to sell the 2014 Bay Star 3103. If I can buy a 2016 with a 6 speed transmission that will get that kind of MPG while towing.
But, to be serious, If you are getting that kind of MPG, I need to find out what it is that I'm doing wrong. The first trip in the Bay Star, when we bought it in Florida, and drove to Baltimore, I averaged about 5.75 mpg. Of course I didn't know any better and was cruising at 65 - 70 the whole way. The best I've ever gotten was 7.25 mpg, and that was going as easy as I could without the toad.
__________________
Bill & Denise
2014 Bay Star 3103 - 5 Star Tune, CHF, Magne Shade
2017 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited Sahara
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03-21-2016, 11:57 AM
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#40
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Senior Member
Official iRV2 Sponsor
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Florence, SC
Posts: 730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeJay
Don't see why 5 Star couldn't get back some of that HP. It was probably a change due to EPA emission standards.
Just helped a friend install the TUNE in his RV and he said, "Thanks a bunch. It feels like I'm driving a sports car instead of an RV." His words not mine.
TeJay
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We can definitely get some great gains in power and torque just as we did with the 5 speed. Much of the current lower readings are due to the newer GVWR standards. Higher the weight, lower point at which they read power and torque from. Makes them look even more detuned that what they are.
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843-536-1244
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03-22-2016, 09:08 AM
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#41
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 8,055
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That's good news!
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03-22-2016, 09:19 AM
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#42
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5star
We can definitely get some great gains in power and torque just as we did with the 5 speed. Much of the current lower readings are due to the newer GVWR standards. Higher the weight, lower point at which they read power and torque from. Makes them look even more detuned that what they are.
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what would be nice to see is a before and after dyno pull... that way we could see what and wgere the power comes in...
where are you guys.... you could use my coach to test...
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