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Old 03-28-2019, 07:40 AM   #323
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TeJay,

Well, I can't say I KNOW what I'm doing, but sometimes I get lucky and figure out what I'm doing. When I got that upper bolt cross threaded and then rounded it was a serious "uh oh" moment. If I couldn't get it backed out using Vice Grips I was trying to figure out how I was going to get a Dremel or Sawsall in there to cut the bolt off, then drill it out, etc. I got lucky, and then lucky again when the spot welds broke so easily.

Anyway, I went for a 30 mile test drive yesterday (sans toad), and oh, what a difference. Crosswinds are still felt, but they push on the whole side of the bus, rather than feeling like they are pushing on an upper rear corner and inducing serious weight transfer/tail wag. As you mentioned, I suspect I had a slow, gradual deterioration in rear SB effect, and when I noticed the sudden and drastic change was likely when the whole thing let go.

The steering stabilizer is also a noticeable improvement, worth the $$. You still feel the bow wave coming off passing semis, and it still requires steering correction, but it's a one steer back into the semi correction, rather than chasing the wheel repeatedly. Wish I could describe it better.

At this point I do not feel the need to consider other suspension mods, such as Sumo springs, upgraded SB's, different shocks, or a track bar.

Overall, it doesn't drive like a sports car, but it's never going to. It does drive about as well as you can reasonably expect for a top heavy bread box mounted on a medium duty truck chassis.

Again, many, many thanks for your sticky. Had I not happened across it, I'd always be wondering about this. Armed with your info, I can now just add SB bracket bolts to my usual pre-trip mechanical checklist and go back to enjoying my bus.
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Old 03-28-2019, 08:09 AM   #324
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Sway bar hardware

Quote:
Originally Posted by TeJay View Post
Moonshine94,

Great that you found your problem. Chances are good the reason you found the bushing in good shape is because Ford started using the polyurethane bushings on the 2012 chassis which is what you most likely have.

Hope you solve the bolt issue. If you have a nut and bolt source in town I'd use them if the Ford ones you ordered don't work. I'm still very curious what happened. You'd think going to the source they'd get it right??

One other item. I'm thinking that from the factory Ford spot welded the bracket nuts in place on the differential strap where the bushing is installed. I might be incorrect also.

If they are not welded in place any nut and bolt source can replace those 12-mm 10.9 grade nuts and bolts. You could even use some SAE 1/2" nuts and bolts grade 8.

If you switched to SAE 1/2" they are .070 larger in diameter than a 12-mm bolt. The larger 1/2" bolts may not fit through the bracket holes. Easy enough to find out. Maybe even one of the box stores might have them. Check some auto parts stores as well.
Tejay, I was just wondering why nobody recommends Stainless hardware and either lock nuts or lock washers besides Blue Loctite. I know it's overkill but I always use Stainless hardware whenever possible. Menards carries all that stuff. Wouldn't lockwashers help the constant loosening problem?
Just thinking out loud. Let me know your views on this, Tejay.
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Old 03-28-2019, 08:56 AM   #325
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Sponge,

Well Ford started out by spot welding the nuts to the back side of the attaching point. If they used a Ny-Lock type of locking nut it can only be used once (technically) before it has to be replaced. In addition the heat from welding would/could melt the plastic around the Ny-lock.

They could have used a distorted nut as a locking device but they probably never figured they would be coming loose like they have been doing. After all the front ones don't come loose and they are handled the same.

I'm not sure Ford would go to the expense of SS fasteners. I'm not an engineer and don't know if SS would be stronger that regular steel. I know it is designed and intended to not rust or corrode. Does that make it better or stronger or able to take more than 66 ft/lbs of torque??

When comparing the front and rear SB system of this I'm aware. The rear SB is smaller in diameter than the front: FRONT 1.5" versus REAR 1.42". Yet the rear handles twice the weight. Maybe some of the larger chassis have larger SB. I haven't checked my CD's for all the other chassis weights.

The width of the brackets is different: FRONT 2-1/4" versus REAR 1- 9/32". As far as I'm concerned some common sense tells me the width of the brackets has to have an effect on the bolts coming loose.

I believe we have the simplest solution to this problem and that's blue lock tight. The fasteners will hold as demonstrated by the fronts. The rears will also work as long as they don't come loose then distort and destroy what Ford thought was going to work.

Since it takes time (warranty) for this to cause the worst damage it often falls outside the warranty limit. When that happens Ford does not have an accurate record regarding the numbers of loose, bent, broken, missing brackets and destroyed bracket bolts.

They have and keep records but do they check when a part is being replaced more often than is should based on reported repairs?? Often the owners don't take it to a dealer but fix it themselves and that's not part of Fords repair statistics for that part.

It's often very difficult to get most any manufacturer to react to a possible warranty issue. This is just another example of how complicated it can get.
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Old 04-15-2019, 11:19 PM   #326
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Getting ready for a trip and decided it was time to check mine. I was able to take one of the bolts out by hand and the other three were not real tight, but everything was still there. Took them out one at a time put on a little blue Permatex and torqued them down. Hope they stay there.

AL
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Old 04-17-2019, 04:52 AM   #327
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Thank you all for sharing your experience with this common f-53 sway bar issue... I have a 1999 Thor Pinnacle with 55,000 miles and I've check all sb bushing and nothing was wrong, so I'm a Lucky man.... But they are still rubber and get mushy from time so I decided to replace them with better Urethane bushing, they are pretty affordable and they will surely help sway control... Here is a link on eBay... https://www.ebay.com/itm/Ford-F53-Cl...72.m2749.l2649
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Old 04-17-2019, 06:00 AM   #328
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Sponge,

I got curious about using stainless steel (SS) so d1d some research. We know they won't rust but the many different types of metal coatings (anodized, nickle, zinc etc) do help with corrosion.

The amount of torque that can be applied is a mixed bag. A SS fastener does not mean it can be torqued more than the same size standard fastener. The metals tensile strength is the crucial factor regarding the amount of torque so we are back to square one.

Replacing stock with higher grade bolts will work but the nuts (often welded on the bracket) have to be upgrade also.

A lock washer could be added but I'll still use the lock tight and so far it is working well.
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Old 04-17-2019, 06:15 AM   #329
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Quote:
I have a 1999 Thor Pinnacle with 55,000 miles and I've check all sb bushing and nothing was wrong, so I'm a Lucky man.
The early model F53 (1999 - 2006) have a different mount for the rear sway bar. These are generally OK. Its the later models that used a strap style bracket that exhibit the problem.
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Old 04-18-2019, 08:31 AM   #330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeJay View Post
Sponge,

I got curious about using stainless steel (SS) so d1d some research. We know they won't rust but the many different types of metal coatings (anodized, nickle, zinc etc) do help with corrosion.

The amount of torque that can be applied is a mixed bag. A SS fastener does not mean it can be torqued more than the same size standard fastener. The metals tensile strength is the crucial factor regarding the amount of torque so we are back to square one.

Replacing stock with higher grade bolts will work but the nuts (often welded on the bracket) have to be upgrade also.

A lock washer could be added but I'll still use the lock tight and so far it is working well.
Seeing as you directed your response to my suggestion of using SS hardware, I must reply that every Military A/C in use has been using SS hardware since I was a Crew Chief in the U.S.A.F. on C-130 AC. There are absolutely different grades of SS such as 17-4PH, 304SS, all of 300 series SS etccc. They use different grades for different applications. When I was involved in Post Military Mfg. Eng. for Snapon and head Eng. for 17-4 PH SS castings manufactured for the military specifically for Sidewinder missiles, the use of SS was evident in the stability of the material and anti-rust properties and the formability of the end product.
I still maintain than the correct hardware used can alleviate quite a few problems down the road. The manufacturer won't spend the money but that becomes our choice when we choose to repair hardware/ components improperly applied or when they become a problem.
It is my personal choice to use SS even if overkill because there are more things to attend to in a multi-system vehicle without re-addressing old issues. IMHO
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Old 04-18-2019, 08:36 AM   #331
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I like your approach and of course your background is a great benefit. Would you share either on this thread or or through a PM some information.

I'd like a specific number/name of a specific SS fastener and places of where to buy what I might need. I also like to error on the safe side in most areas of what I like to work on around the house. I don't mind spending a bit more especially on fasteners.

Thanks for your input.
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Old 04-18-2019, 10:45 AM   #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeJay View Post
I like your approach and of course your background is a great benefit. Would you share either on this thread or or through a PM some information.

I'd like a specific number/name of a specific SS fastener and places of where to buy what I might need. I also like to error on the safe side in most areas of what I like to work on around the house. I don't mind spending a bit more especially on fasteners.

Thanks for your input.
Thanks for your reply.
The specific part numbers of the hardware I was associated with were all assigned by the U.S. gov't and would not be beneficial to anyone else.
I will repeat that Stainless hardware is readily available by thread size
I.E. (5/16-18). I don't frequent Lowe's, but Tractor Supply, Menards and probably others stock SS hardware both fine and coarse pitch as well as Metric sizes. Hope that answers your question.
Thanks
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Old 04-18-2019, 11:55 AM   #333
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We have a TSC close to me as well as specific nut and bolt houses. The local chicken industry is very large and with all their equipment they need fasteners.

Thanks,
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Old Yesterday, 09:31 AM   #334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeJay View Post
We have a TSC close to me as well as specific nut and bolt houses. The local chicken industry is very large and with all their equipment they need fasteners.

Thanks,
Fastenal may be another source for commercial applications.
Thanks
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