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10-19-2019, 12:31 PM
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#393
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lowell, Arkansas
Posts: 7,301
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Based on the many, many variables between chassis weights, lengths, rear overhangs, manufacturer floor plan and overall set up of onboard items like holding tanks, propane tanks, storage compartments etc, etc, etc when we perform the many MODs available there will always be as many varied results as there are variables.
That said!!! In general (F-53) the heavier the chassis the better the ride/handling from the very beginning. The opposite is true with the lighter chassis.
Generally the lighter the chassis the more dramatic the results when MODS are added. In addition often when the chassis gets heavier they at some point use the 22.5" tire/rim instead of the 19.5" tire/rim. That is always a plus to have.
At what point do manufacturers switch to the larger tire/rims?? Back in 1999 we bought a 34' Dutch Star. It had the smaller tires. We now have a 31' RV and it also has the smaller tires. In later years they began switching to the larger tires on 34' rigs. I believe it the the chassis weight that determines when they switch. Probably on the 20,000 and up.
When we added the RSSA steering stabilizer we did have a minor reduction in the far left and right steering wheel (SW) position. We pull out of our drive and have to turn the SW more than 90 degrees to make the turn. Sometimes I have to back up to make it. We used to install the TOAD before we pulled out of the drive and now we do it at the top of the hill on the ridge road.
Yes the RSSA may limit the full turn left and right but that's only on very rare occasions. It never happens when we are traveling so the SW limiting factor is a small price to pay compared to all the hours of much happier and relaxed driving when the wind conditions are bad. I'd add it again without question!!!
__________________
TeJay Auto Instructor/4-yrs USAF/ Liz: RN/ WBGO 2014 Vista 30T/ F-53/CHF/5-Star/Koni * Bella & Izzy * Golden /Cocker mix/ Louie The Cat* All Retired
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10-19-2019, 04:25 PM
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#394
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 5,689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K3wtf
Oh Skudderdude. Where are you!!!!
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He's having "T".
https://www.ebay.com/usr/skuterdude
Ray
__________________
2020 Forest River Georgetown GT5 34H5
2020 Equinox Premier AWD 2.0L/9-speed
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10-19-2019, 05:00 PM
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#395
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: PA
Posts: 240
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR
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Yes, indeed! I always assumed it had something to do with being a scooter-dude, but I never actually asked him.
Thanks,
MathComp
__________________
2013 Fleetwood Bounder 35K
Koni shocks, Roadmaster front sway bar, CHF (rear), rear track bar, 5-Star Tune
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10-20-2019, 02:29 AM
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#396
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 2,756
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My 2 bits worth is for MathComp to make sure he installed the correct size bushings. Bushings should not be a loose fit. Your front and rear sway bars may be different diameters also, so they could be put on backwards.
On my 2015 18K F53 chassis the rear sway bar was 36 MM (1.42"). If you use a 38 MM (1.5") bushing on a 36 MM bar it will be loose and allow unwanted movement. If I understood a past post from TeJay correctly the front sway bar on my 2015 may have been 38 MM.
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1998 Min Winnie, 2000 Winbago Journey, 2015 ACE 29.3
2016 Thor Miramar 34.2
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10-20-2019, 06:56 AM
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#397
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lowell, Arkansas
Posts: 7,301
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Not a bad thought but besides the difference in inside diameter (ID) as you correctly stated the front bushing is around 1/2" to 3/4" wider and installing on the rear there would be bushing outside the bracket and not enough bushing width on the fronts.
Still good thinking outside the box and that's how these type of issues can be solved.
__________________
TeJay Auto Instructor/4-yrs USAF/ Liz: RN/ WBGO 2014 Vista 30T/ F-53/CHF/5-Star/Koni * Bella & Izzy * Golden /Cocker mix/ Louie The Cat* All Retired
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10-20-2019, 08:24 AM
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#398
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 1,136
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Just my $0.02. I did the CHF front and rear, and noticed improvement. I didn't like the angle of the front Links and installed a set of Tejay's Plates. I could feel the improvement of these mods when driving, but the results were not earth shattering.
I read a lot about TrackBars and how the rear springs would roll form side to side. When some big trucks and even small vehicles passed me the rear would roll away from them. Correction against the push would roll the springs the other direction and for the next 5 - 10 seconds I would be fighting the dance of the rear of the motor home.
My DW likes to crawl into bed and sleep while I am driving (yes I keep telling her that is not a good idea) and would make comments about how badly I was driving. I installed a track bar on the rear of my coach and the improvements were so drastic that she commented about how my driving had improved.
I did eventually tell her it wasn't my driving but that the improvements had been from the installation of the track bar.
I used the Ultra-Track, and installation was pretty straight forward. I have an 18K Chassis so the Ultra Track bolts to the sway bar bushing mounts. While performing the installation I put red loctite on everything front and rear. I have my mechanic check bolt torques every year at the beginning of the camping season and they have been spot on for three years now.
__________________
2007 Winnebago Journey 36SG and 13 Honda CRV Toad,
e-Trailer XHD Towbar (Demco), Blue Ox baseplate, SMI Stay N Play brakes
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10-20-2019, 09:04 AM
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#399
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lowell, Arkansas
Posts: 7,301
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Tim M,
Thanks for the update and comments. It's always helpful to hear of real world experiences regarding the addition of ride and handling MODS.
Except for the higher costs of a track bar (TB) over the CHF I'd say the TB is usually a big improvement especially on the lighter Ford chassis like 18,000 LB.
__________________
TeJay Auto Instructor/4-yrs USAF/ Liz: RN/ WBGO 2014 Vista 30T/ F-53/CHF/5-Star/Koni * Bella & Izzy * Golden /Cocker mix/ Louie The Cat* All Retired
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10-20-2019, 12:55 PM
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#400
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 1,136
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In my opinion the CHF and the track bar fix different aspects of the handling of the F53, and work well together to tame the beast, so to speak.
__________________
2007 Winnebago Journey 36SG and 13 Honda CRV Toad,
e-Trailer XHD Towbar (Demco), Blue Ox baseplate, SMI Stay N Play brakes
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10-20-2019, 01:42 PM
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#401
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 5,689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tim myers
I read a lot about TrackBars and how the rear springs would roll form side to side. When some big trucks and even small vehicles passed me the rear would roll away from them. Correction against the push would roll the springs the other direction and for the next 5 - 10 seconds I would be fighting the dance of the rear of the motor home.
...
I did eventually tell her it wasn't my driving but that the improvements had been from the installation of the track bar.
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In a shining example of "different coaches different results" I installed the SuperSteer rear trac bar (because the front trac bar is standard on the 2019 F53 chassis) and noticed precisely zero difference. I was hoping it would reduce some of the push we get from passing trucks, which usually is not very much, but it did nothing detectable.
Actually, that's not precisely accurate. It did lighten my wallet.
22,000 lb chassis and 242" wheelbase.
Ray
__________________
2020 Forest River Georgetown GT5 34H5
2020 Equinox Premier AWD 2.0L/9-speed
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10-20-2019, 03:45 PM
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#402
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lowell, Arkansas
Posts: 7,301
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The CHF and SB as a whole help to control the chassis SWAY. Sway is the top of the chassis rocking side to side.
A track bar (TB) controls lateral chassis movement. If your coach had a pole driven through the exact center lateral movement would be the chassis moving left and right within that axis of rotation. Yes two very different types of movement that are controllable.
The shocks also assist with dampening of the chassis sway because they reduce or dampen the rocking or compression and rebound of the leaf springs which is basically sway.
My guess is a heavier chassis is less susceptible to lateral movement and that is why you didn't notice a big improvement.
__________________
TeJay Auto Instructor/4-yrs USAF/ Liz: RN/ WBGO 2014 Vista 30T/ F-53/CHF/5-Star/Koni * Bella & Izzy * Golden /Cocker mix/ Louie The Cat* All Retired
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10-20-2019, 06:42 PM
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#403
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 5,689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeJay
... My guess is a heavier chassis is less susceptible to lateral movement and that is why you didn't notice a big improvement.
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Or because I have a front trac bar as standard. Or because Forest River does something differently. Or something else.
The chassis capacity shouldn't have much of an effect on the body moving laterally on the chassis, should it? The difference between 18,000 and 22,000 is around 20%.
Anyone know when Ford started installing a factory front trac bar?
Ray
__________________
2020 Forest River Georgetown GT5 34H5
2020 Equinox Premier AWD 2.0L/9-speed
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10-20-2019, 07:02 PM
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#404
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Dayton, OH
Posts: 1,136
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Not sure, my 2014 chassis has one in the front
__________________
2007 Winnebago Journey 36SG and 13 Honda CRV Toad,
e-Trailer XHD Towbar (Demco), Blue Ox baseplate, SMI Stay N Play brakes
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10-20-2019, 10:13 PM
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#405
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Lowell, Arkansas
Posts: 7,301
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I believe I read they added a front TB around 2007. That's just a guess. We have one on our 2013 chassis for sure.
"The chassis capacity shouldn't have much of an effect on the body moving laterally on the chassis, should it? The difference between 18,000 and 22,000 is around 20%."
It takes more energy to move a heavier chassis. There's an additional 4,000 lbs of weight pressing it to the ground.
__________________
TeJay Auto Instructor/4-yrs USAF/ Liz: RN/ WBGO 2014 Vista 30T/ F-53/CHF/5-Star/Koni * Bella & Izzy * Golden /Cocker mix/ Louie The Cat* All Retired
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10-21-2019, 05:37 AM
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#406
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 5,689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeJay
It takes more energy to move a heavier chassis. There's an additional 4,000 lbs of weight pressing it to the ground.
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We might be mixing apples and something else. The extra 4,000 lbs is not dead weight being moved, it's extra weight on low-friction wheels. Mass is mass but removing friction makes a big difference, obviously. I may have a longer "box" with more square footage broadside to the wind source (38') which may make it better or worse, or no change at all.
Unless we get them in wind tunnels side by side it's all just guessing.
Ray
__________________
2020 Forest River Georgetown GT5 34H5
2020 Equinox Premier AWD 2.0L/9-speed
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