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05-01-2015, 04:19 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,079
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Battery Control Center CB115 problem - how to fix it yourself
My F53 1999 won't start. I found easily on the internet the Troubleshooting guide to test the battery control board.
It appears that my board has to be replaced since for the test called: "Ignition Relay - Board mounted relay", failed. It says in the doc: There must be battery voltage on P4 #11 and P13. If so, replace the board. It means in my opinion that if there is voltage between P4 connector for the wire #4 and the big P13 screw, and the ignition key is at ON position, then the board is bad. P13 is the big nut on top right and also a screw outside the mounting box left side.
I ordered on eBay a new CB-115. My old one was revision B and the new one is going to be Revision P.
The test that failed talk about the Ignition Relay but it does not means that it is the onboard ignition relay that is broken. I removed the board from the F53 and tested the relay. It works. I even changed it but this did not fix the problem.
Looking on my old board I realized that the only Integrated Circuit is called: LM339N. This is a voltage comparator. A comparator looks at 2 different voltages at the 2 inputs. Then makes the output either "GROUNDED" or "OPEN".
This little LM339N is sold 1.50$ for 10 of them including shipping on eBay.
Other than that, the board revision B only has fuses, 4 diodes and 4 transistors and many resistors. So little it is most likely the comparator that is broken.
So I ordered this little parts and I will see if it fix the problem. BTW, I also ordered on eBay a new CB115 but i will sell it back on eBay if I succeed to fix my old one.
The symptoms: the engine starts only when I press Aux Start and keep it pressed. Once the key is at ON, the chassis battery drains rapidly but the engine runs if I keep the Aux Start press or if I keep the Generator running once the engine is started. Other than that, when the ignition is on, I don't have power on F6 to F12 in the Battery Control Center so my Driver window and many others things don't have power.
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05-01-2015, 05:23 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,079
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BTW, my motorhome is a 1999 Fleetwood Pace Arrow Vision 36.5. I said in previous post that it was a F53 but in fact the Battery Control Center is put in the RV by Fleetwood. The part CB-115 is made by Rv Customs Products.
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05-01-2015, 05:57 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Wichita, Kansas
Posts: 267
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I had problems with mine. I ended up placing a jumper wire from the chassis battery to the terminal closet to the top front of the BCC enclosure.
The motorhome would not start until I put in this jumper. It now starts and runs everytime.
I have ordered a replacement solenoid for the chassis battery but have not installed it yet.
__________________
1999 Bounder 34J, V-10, F53 chassis, Banks Power System, Safe T Plus Steering Control.
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05-01-2015, 06:38 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,079
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Quote:
Originally Posted by golfpgb
I had problems with mine. I ended up placing a jumper wire from the chassis battery to the terminal closet to the top front of the BCC enclosure.
The motorhome would not start until I put in this jumper. It now starts and runs everytime.
I have ordered a replacement solenoid for the chassis battery but have not installed it yet.
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The troubleshooting document for the Battery Control Center CB115 shows how to determine if the Battery or Coach solenoid are broken. It show also how to test the Battery or Coach Switches to cut the power. Those tests succeeded for me so I continued the tests and this is how I found my problem was at the board.
Here is the document for up to Revision N.
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05-02-2015, 09:32 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Skiatook, OK
Posts: 2,548
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cbilodeau Here is a link to a thread over on the Fleetwood forum about the CB115.
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f107/cb-1...lp-190930.html
__________________
Grant & Pat
2014 Adventurer 35P
2021 Ford Bronco OBX
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05-02-2015, 09:46 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbilodeau
The troubleshooting document for the Battery Control Center CB115 shows how to determine if the Battery or Coach solenoid are broken. It show also how to test the Battery or Coach Switches to cut the power. Those tests succeeded for me so I continued the tests and this is how I found my problem was at the board.
Here is the document for up to Revision N.
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You have NOT interpreted the results of your testing correctly. The fact that you do not have power to fuses 6 to 12 (but may have power on fuses 3 to 5) simply means the ignition relay on the board did not operate. It must have a pick signal supplied through Plug-4 pin-11 AND voltage from the chassis battery from pin P13. The comparator circuit has nothing to do with this relay operation.
What you seem to be missing is chassis battery voltage on P15 from the chassis battery. The fact that your chassis battery drains quickly when the ignition is on tells me you have a problem with the battery connections external to the BCC. The fact that the engine starts with the aux start switch held on says you are using voltage from the house batteries.
The fact that the engine keeps running, if the generator is running, tells me that the comparator circuit is operating correctly and the generator is powering the converter to raise the house battery voltage above the 13.2v threshold necessary to close the aux start/interconnect/isolator relay. (the same result as holding the aux start switch pressed)
golfpg, in reply #3, has the right answer for a temp fix.
Good luck. lou
__________________
'97 Bounder 34V, F53 7.5L-460
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05-04-2015, 08:36 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,079
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Bounder
You have NOT interpreted the results of your testing correctly....
Good luck. lou
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Ok I just read your message. I will look at it all later today and try to understand better. It makes sense that I could be loosing power...
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05-04-2015, 06:13 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,079
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Bounder
golfpg, in reply #3, has the right answer for a temp fix.
Good luck. lou
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I could work only 1 hour today. I unplugged the Chassis cable going on the top screw outside the BCC. It is completly rusty. If I take a ohmeter on the screw and on the bar inside the BCC on which it is connected there is nothing on the ohmmeter. So this is a problem. Even if i move the screw there is no contact at all!!!
I will continue tomorrow morning. I will remove the CB115 board to be able to remove all the solenoids and then try to clean all those contactors. I will clean the metal box of the BCC, remove the rust on it and paint it with anti-rust primer and then anti-rush paint.
Once I will have the contactors screws in hand, I will remove the rust on it and put diulectric paste on it.
Sorry for my english, my main language is french.
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05-04-2015, 06:24 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,079
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BTW, I also tried to clean the contactors on the Starter-alternator Solenoid. This solenoid receive the big 12V+ cable of the alternator. Once I tried to remove the nuts on it, it broke in parts. I ordered a new one.
On eBay do this search:
(starter, solenoid) (SS362, F3957, 19106716, 19106717, F926, W1951C, f5tu-11450-ba, M1090A, F492G, E9TZ11450B, F5TU11450BA, SS598, 1M1090, SS598T, 84010, SS94, F914, F1492, 4D5, F492, F3914, SW-1507B, 60-02-5515, SS361, SS598, SW-1951C, SS4)
and then sort by price.
For amazon, do a search for each of the numbers like this :
Solenoid SS362
Solenoid F3967
.....
I bought two for 32$Can shipping and taxes included. I will use the other one for the Hydraulic jacks because the solenoid broke too when I tried to remove the screws on it.
The ones I bought are on amazon : Standard Motor Products SS598T Starter Solenoid
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05-05-2015, 08:56 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,079
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Here are two pictures of the top connector of the Battery Control Center. The plastic that protect it from touching the metal box has melted.
THIS MELTED PLASTIC WENT BETWEEN THE CONNECTOR HEAD AND THE METAL BAR SO THERE WAS ALMOST NO ELECTRICITY GOING THROUGH. PLEASE VERIFY YOUR CONNECTORS FOR MELTED PLASTIC. UNDERSTAND THAT WHEN MY 12v CHASSIS BATTERY WAS CONNECTED I HAD SOME READING SO I COULD NOT SUSPECT THE PROBLEM WAS THERE.
So I think I will simply destroy this connector and make a 1 inch hole. I will pull the chassis battery cable inside the box (protecting it with big rubber around the neck) and I will screw it on the solenoid directly. I will use silicon to seal the hole completly.
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05-05-2015, 10:54 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,636
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The melting would indicate that the cable connection was loose and generating heat. If it was allowing the connector to touch the metal box your chassis battery would be quickly drained, or worse.
You need to connect your cable to the BAR, as it connects to the chassis disconnect solenoid as well as the isolator solenoid below.
__________________
'97 Bounder 34V, F53 7.5L-460
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05-05-2015, 12:31 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,079
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Bounder
The melting would indicate that the cable connection was loose and generating heat. If it was allowing the connector to touch the metal box your chassis battery would be quickly drained, or worse.
You need to connect your cable to the BAR, as it connects to the chassis disconnect solenoid as well as the isolator solenoid below.
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There was a screw-connector unused called P13. I reused the plastic protection washers from this connector. I will seal the created hole with a bolt, washer and screw. I got rid of the P13 unused cable.
Yes I suppose that the connections were bad creating heat so I restored everything. I did put a lot of dielectric grease. I suppose that with this grease the connections should be ok for another 15 years.
The plastic washers on the Chassis connector had melted all over the head of the screw-connector so there was no contact with the bar.
If this fix my electric problems I will be more than happy. But I will make sure this summer to check if the connectors are hot just to be sure I did not miss something in my restoration.
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05-05-2015, 12:52 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,636
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbilodeau
There was a screw-connector unused called P13. I reused the plastic protection washers from this connector. I will seal the created hole with a bolt, washer and screw. I got rid of the P13 unused cable.
Yes I suppose that the connections were bad creating heat so I restored everything. I did put a lot of dielectric grease. I suppose that with this grease the connections should be ok for another 15 years.
The plastic washers on the Chassis connector had melted all over the head of the screw-connector so there was no contact with the bar.
If this fix my electric problems I will be more than happy. But I will make sure this summer to check if the connectors are hot just to be sure I did not miss something in my restoration.
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You need to look at the diagram of the board and make sure you did NOT disconnect the board from the chassis battery disconnect solenoid. That connection is electrically P13. The actual connection may be a red wire soldered to the back of the board.
__________________
'97 Bounder 34V, F53 7.5L-460
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05-05-2015, 01:52 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,079
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Bounder
You need to look at the diagram of the board and make sure you did NOT disconnect the board from the chassis battery disconnect solenoid. That connection is electrically P13. The actual connection may be a red wire soldered to the back of the board.
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Yes I kept this one. The one I removed is a cable 4 times bigger. It was going to the connector-screw but the screw was going nowhere. I suppose this screw is useful for the Diesel version where they probably need it for the external Aux-Start relay.
BTW, I am grouping 4 batteries in parallel for the coach new Inverter. I did put a big 200A alternator (bought 200$CAN on eBay) with big cables 1/0 gage (kept the same belt size). I added the same kind of cable for the chassis battery ground and chassis 12v+ going to the alternator. (I bought the 1/0 copper wire for 50 feet, 60$US on eBay)
But for the Aux-Start I ordered a PAC PAC500 solenoid (40$US on eBay + shipping). I plan to put this solenoid just beside the Chassis battery with a 250A fuse. The solenoid then connect to the Coach four batteries that are just 2 feet away with again big 1/0 gage cable.
So I plan to take a small cable that will bring the two wire on the previous Aux-Start solenoid in the BCC and will bring it to the new PAC PAC500.
1 - In your opinion, is my new solenoid PAC500, 500A but with a surge of 700A good enough?
2 - Do you feel a 250A fuse will be enough? My Cold Cranking on the chassis battery is 850A (battery at Costco code 6 for 118$Cab + tx). The four chassis battery are from Costco too and are group 27 code 14, 96ah. Should I put two fuses 250A in parallel?
3 - Should I increase the size of the Aux-Start fuse 3A in the Battery Control Center?
4 - I plan to leave the previous Aux-Start solenoid unplugged. I could probably let both work together (The one in the BCC and the new PAC500) but I am afraid the old one could blow or could create too much pressure on the old cabling going in the BCC, because if ever the PAC500 breaks, then the old cabling would have to deal with big amperages. Does it make sense to you?
Thanks in advance.
Carl
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