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10-04-2016, 06:14 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 207
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Blue Ox rear trac bar?
Has any one installed a Blue Ox rear trac bar on the newer 22,000 F-53 chassis? How well does it stop the sway? (I know about the CHF, did it on my last F-53)
I was told by a service tech they help quite a bit but before spending $600 I wanted to check around first.
Thanks!
__________________
2016 Itasca Sunova 33c-5 Star tuned, Blue Ox Trac Bar, Steer Safe, Sumosprings
2019 Chevy Colorado 4x4 Toad
His and Her's Honda Ruckus Scooters and TREK Farley's
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10-04-2016, 07:07 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Portage, MI
Posts: 401
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My coach is an 18,000 chassis, so it is different than yours.
You've used the term "sway". In the world of autos, sway is the tendency for the vehicle to tilt in the vertical axis. Like going around a corner and the top-heavy vehicle leaning like it's going to turn over on it's side. A track bar does nothing for this.
A track bar is to keep the axle located horizontally relative to the chassis. Think of looking at the chassis as you are riding in the towed vehicle. The chassis moving left and right, as the wheels are trying to go straight. The track bar tries to keep the axle aligned to the chassis (centered) to prevent the dreaded "tail wagging the dog". This is also where that gigantic wall of air that is being pushed in front of a semi truck pushes the chassis right then left. The rear movement is actually steering the coach and the driver must try to counter it with the steering wheel. Not possible...it's tiring.
My experience is that the track bar was instrumental in taking back control of the coach when a truck passes by. Rear CHF (70%), front CHF (0%), Rear track bar (25%), tie rod stabilizer (RSSA) (5%).
My chassis already had a front track bar at delivery. Since a few years ago, it was finally realized it was needed from the start, perhaps they'll open their eyes and install a rear one, too?
__________________
Randy & Karin B, Portage, MI
2017 Newmar Ventana LE 4037 & 2021 Chevy Trailblazer
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10-04-2016, 07:15 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 15,749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bydnar
My coach is an 18,000 chassis, so it is different than yours.
You've used the term "sway". In the world of autos, sway is the tendency for the vehicle to tilt in the vertical axis. Like going around a corner and the top-heavy vehicle leaning like it's going to turn over on it's side. A track bar does nothing for this.
A track bar is to keep the axle located horizontally relative to the chassis. Think of looking at the chassis as you are riding in the towed vehicle. The chassis moving left and right, as the wheels are trying to go straight. The track bar tries to keep the axle aligned to the chassis (centered) to prevent the dreaded "tail wagging the dog". This is also where that gigantic wall of air that is being pushed in front of a semi truck pushes the chassis right then left. The rear movement is actually steering the coach and the driver must try to counter it with the steering wheel. Not possible...it's tiring.
My experience is that the track bar was instrumental in taking back control of the coach when a truck passes by. Rear CHF (70%), front CHF (0%), Rear track bar (25%), tie rod stabilizer (RSSA) (5%).
My chassis already had a front track bar at delivery. Since a few years ago, it was finally realized it was needed from the start, perhaps they'll open their eyes and install a rear one, too?
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Agree with this. Adding a rear track bar to a 2002 Ford chassis MH we previously owned pretty much cured the frequent steering input required to travel a straight line. Any sidways push on the rear was transferred to a movement in the opposite at the front.
The CHF was instrumental in reducing body sway.
__________________
Vince and Susan
2011 Tiffin Phaeton 40QTH (Cummins ISC/Freightliner)
Flat towing a modified 2005 Jeep (Rubicon Wrangler)
Previously a 2002 Fleetwood Pace Arrow 37A and a 1995 Safari Trek 2830.
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10-04-2016, 07:28 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 207
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Thanks
That will certainly help! I appreciate your help guys. Thanks.
Fred
__________________
2016 Itasca Sunova 33c-5 Star tuned, Blue Ox Trac Bar, Steer Safe, Sumosprings
2019 Chevy Colorado 4x4 Toad
His and Her's Honda Ruckus Scooters and TREK Farley's
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10-04-2016, 08:10 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Portage, MI
Posts: 401
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Great visual explanations
Thanks to Super Steer for producing such great visuals to describe the various conditions and terminology.
Auto Repair and Auto Maintenance Articles
__________________
Randy & Karin B, Portage, MI
2017 Newmar Ventana LE 4037 & 2021 Chevy Trailblazer
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10-04-2016, 11:07 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 519
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I installed the Blue OX Tigertrac bar on my 2013 Newmar Bay Star 3002. (30'9" length and 20,500 chassis). It helped with what is called "Tail wagging". This usually happens when passed by 18 wheelers. CHF is better for sway. I thought it was money well spent.
Regards, Jerry
__________________
2020 Tiffin 33AA with 2 rear Vroom Slides - towing 2016 Toyota 4Runner Trail Premium, Options: Roadmaster Sterling Tow bar, RVIbrake2
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10-04-2016, 06:58 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Town of Beloit
Posts: 363
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blue ox trac bar
Quote:
Originally Posted by KTM251ss
Has any one installed a Blue Ox rear trac bar on the newer 22,000 F-53 chassis? How well does it stop the sway? (I know about the CHF, did it on my last F-53)
I was told by a service tech they help quite a bit but before spending $600 I wanted to check around first.
Thanks!
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KTM:i did the rear tracbar first , which helped with tail wag when being passed. CHF helped with body lean . i have 24k chassis. i think it was worth the money . there was no way i was gonna let my wife drive before i did those fixes , now no problem .
__________________
2016 Tiffin 34PA, 2018 Ford Edge toad, Blue OX rear track bar, Cheap handling fix, Konis, Super Steer retired Ford tech/service manager, No Worry, No Hurry. "Livin The Dream"
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10-04-2016, 08:23 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JIMBO34PA
KTM:i did the rear tracbar first , which helped with tail wag when being passed. CHF helped with body lean . i have 24k chassis. i think it was worth the money . there was no way i was gonna let my wife drive before i did those fixes , now no problem .
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Were you able to use the stock links for the CHF in the front? I am hoping it's just a matter of moving everything over the the inside holes. My ONLY concern with the CHF is the ride gets rougher, it did on my 2008 20.5 chassis but it had 19.5 wheels.
__________________
2016 Itasca Sunova 33c-5 Star tuned, Blue Ox Trac Bar, Steer Safe, Sumosprings
2019 Chevy Colorado 4x4 Toad
His and Her's Honda Ruckus Scooters and TREK Farley's
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10-05-2016, 06:04 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Tiffin Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Town of Beloit
Posts: 363
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CHF
yes to using stock links . i dont like how close and geometry of the placement so i am going to change by either plates or longer links ? it does increase the harshness when hitting potholes or bumps side to side but the gain in handling is worth the harshness . i seem to experience a bind or ground out on tight off camber turns ? still investigating , looking for witness marks .
__________________
2016 Tiffin 34PA, 2018 Ford Edge toad, Blue OX rear track bar, Cheap handling fix, Konis, Super Steer retired Ford tech/service manager, No Worry, No Hurry. "Livin The Dream"
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10-05-2016, 06:56 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Portage, MI
Posts: 401
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KTM251ss
Were you able to use the stock links for the CHF in the front? I am hoping it's just a matter of moving everything over the the inside holes. My ONLY concern with the CHF is the ride gets rougher, it did on my 2008 20.5 chassis but it had 19.5 wheels.
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This question was directed towards Jimbo, but I'll chime in. I am in the harshness camp for the firm setting on the front anti-sway bar setting. I felt that the harshness was from straightening out the angle where the pressure is applied on the bar's lever. Longer links is by far the easier correction than I made. it is documented here:
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f23/cheap...ml#post3078517, the geometry is the key to knowing where the harshness originates.
I highly recommend longer links to avoid the harshness that will result from the front CHF.
__________________
Randy & Karin B, Portage, MI
2017 Newmar Ventana LE 4037 & 2021 Chevy Trailblazer
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10-05-2016, 07:50 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Portage, MI
Posts: 401
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Longer Links = Better Geometry
Here is a drawing with the OEM link and a 14" link overlaid to show the difference in the application angle to the anti-sway lever. The closer to 90 degrees the better, but also ground clearance has to be considered. The obtuse angle effectively makes a stiffer lever arm, due to less leverage on the anti-sway bar.
As you can see, a significant change by simply lengthening the links. That can be done by purchasing the Hellwig links or having a local welder fix you up. The latter has been documented in the cheap handling fix thread.
If you choose the adjustable Hellwigs, remember that each link is to be the same length. Even if putting on the second one, it does not fit so good, that is likely because the chassis is not on a level pad. When on a level pad, there should be NO preload to the anti-sway bar.
__________________
Randy & Karin B, Portage, MI
2017 Newmar Ventana LE 4037 & 2021 Chevy Trailblazer
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10-05-2016, 07:58 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Thor Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 3,788
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Install on an 18K chassis last winter. Easy driveway project. Can't say there was any sway improvement, CHF tamed the sway, but straight line stability is much better. With 1/3 of the house behind the rear axle it didn't take much to get the back end going a different direction then the front. Required nearly constant steering input to maintain lane position. The trac bar pretty much clear up that up. I actually got surprised one time when a semi suddenly appeared out my left window. Normally I would feel the push first.
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10-05-2016, 08:59 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 207
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bydnar
Here is a drawing with the OEM link and a 14" link overlaid to show the difference in the application angle to the anti-sway lever. The closer to 90 degrees the better, but also ground clearance has to be considered. The obtuse angle effectively makes a stiffer lever arm, due to less leverage on the anti-sway bar.
As you can see, a significant change by simply lengthening the links. That can be done by purchasing the Hellwig links or having a local welder fix you up. The latter has been documented in the cheap handling fix thread.
If you choose the adjustable Hellwigs, remember that each link is to be the same length. Even if putting on the second one, it does not fit so good, that is likely because the chassis is not on a level pad. When on a level pad, there should be NO preload to the anti-sway bar.
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I have the stock links still from my 2008 20.5 chassis, I wonder if i could just take them and have them made a bit longer? I will have to climb under there with one and see if it has the same ends. They need to be 14 inches?
Thanks
__________________
2016 Itasca Sunova 33c-5 Star tuned, Blue Ox Trac Bar, Steer Safe, Sumosprings
2019 Chevy Colorado 4x4 Toad
His and Her's Honda Ruckus Scooters and TREK Farley's
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10-05-2016, 11:59 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,164
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We have a 2014 Sunova 33C. Probably everything on the chassis is the Same as yours. Put on a rear track bar ASAP. I put a Henderson one from Eugene, OR. A bit less that the Blue Ox and the customer support and quality is superb. Just did a 1200 mile trip with it and the rear Chf done unbelievable improvement. No more "tail wagging the dog" syndrome. The rear Chf eliminated most of the sway. I will do the front Chf when we get home and the brackets should be done. I am going to drill the holes such that The angle of the link will be very close if not identical to what it is now. It will make the front SB also near level.
BTW, I also had the front end aligned and 1/2 degree positive caster added. That was done before I added the rear trac bar, and it took out all the constant steering corrections. Passing trucks are no issue anymore. DW actually drove it 100 miles a few days ago without problems.
You could get the links extended or buy the adjustable ones. I opted to use brackets a bit cheaper and I read enough bad about the adjustable links to scare me off from them. (See Amazon). A local shop could easily extend your stock links, but the brackets give you more flexibility as far as mounting geometry.
__________________
2014 Itasca Sunova 33C, 2019 Jeep Cherokee Lattitude Plus toad, Demco tow bar, SMI braking system. 20 yr USAF ret.
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