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Old 04-25-2019, 07:32 PM   #1
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Brake Bleeding Probs....E450 (long)

So my daughter warped the front rotors last summer and I ended up with steering wheel shimmy on application of brakes at speed. I installed new hub/rotor assemblies, bearings, calipers and pads. To flush and bleed the whole system, I used a pressurized power bleeder (I'll try to attach a pic.) Used the usual sequence: Pass Side Rear, then Drv Side rear etc.

The rears worked great. Got rid of the old black fluid and ended up with nice clear fluid on both sides and no air bubbles.

But on the side I worked on ..... a tale of woe. Working alone (as usual) I didn't pay enuff attention to the fluid level in the master cyl reservoir and of course jammed air into the master cylinder....ouch. No way I can access ithe master cyl with my limited capability to remove it and bench bleed it (I'm 87.) So I figured I will just bleed the (new) Right Front caliper using a LOT more fluid than normal and eventually the air in the master cylinder will pass on thru. So after the fluid from that RF caliper became nice and clear (but with bubbles) I started recycling it (keeping it nice and clean) through the master cylinder again and again. After about 2-1/2 gallons of cycling through, I still have about the same amount of air bubbles coming out of the caliper as when I started.

It just seems to me that there is a finite amount of air that I inadvertently crammed into the system and since I can see it coming out as bubbles, it HAS to end .......... maybe by the 4th of July? lol Maybe there is another component in the system related to the anti-lock brakes that also got a dose of air?

Tomorrow I am gonna have the DW press the brake pedal for me a hundred times or so and bleed the old fashioned way but I don't really expect any different results than with the power bleeder ...... which worked well on the rear brakes.

Is my thought process out of whack? (Yeah, I know it was out of whack when I allowed air into the master cylinder.) I hate to give up on a task that shouldn't be rocket science.

Your suggestions appreciated.
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Old 04-25-2019, 08:39 PM   #2
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There are left and right calipers.

Is the bleeder screw on top ?
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Old 04-25-2019, 09:41 PM   #3
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1. Original post: "So I figured I will just bleed the (new) Right Front caliper using a LOT more fluid than normal and eventually the air in the master cylinder will pass on thru."

2. Yes, the bleeder is on top, pointing upward. Pretty good access. I have the whole rig on 6-Ton jack stands, tires about 3" off the ground and near perfectly level.

Thanks for your interest, Twinboat.
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Old 04-25-2019, 09:53 PM   #4
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Have you bleed the left side at all? if not you might try to get some fluid down that line see if that helps.
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Old 04-25-2019, 10:16 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by 2002guy View Post
Have you bleed the left side at all? if not you might try to get some fluid down that line see if that helps.
Good thought. I may move over to that side tomorrow and try that. It would be a shorter run and maybe the fluid dynamics might be different enough to have a favorable effect ...... dunno. If I could get a clear bleed over there, I could just repeat the front bleed starting with the right side.

On another note: I am not real sure, but I believe I have read that the way many vehicles get brake "redundancy" is to have the rear brakes on one half/piston of the master cylinder and the fronts on the other half. In the E450 case, I believe the proportional braking is set at 70% front and 30% rear. Sure wanna have the fronts in perfect shape.

Thanks..................
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Old 04-26-2019, 06:39 AM   #6
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it is possible you are pulling air from the bleed screw threads. I like suggestion of bleeding driver side and redoing both old fassion way...good luck


or.......speedbleeders.....my personal favorite
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Old 04-26-2019, 07:31 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by gatorb8 View Post
it is possible you are pulling air from the bleed screw threads. I like suggestion of bleeding driver side and redoing both old fassion way...good luck


or.......speedbleeders.....my personal favorite
With a power bleeder as pictured above, there is always positive pressure (whether bleeding a teaspoonful or a quart) so when you loosen the bleeder 1/4 turn or so, if there was any thread leakage it would be brake fluid coming out rather than air going in. I close the bleeder valve before relieving the pressure on the power bleeder tank.

In the past, when bleeding by pumping the master cylinder, I have always just made sure the end of the bleeder hose is immersed in brake fluid in the bottom of my catch bottle but of course air could enter via the bleeder threads ..... on the master cylinder's backstroke. I note some guys put a bit of a grease dam around the threads for that reason.

I'll look into the speedbleeders. The ck valve in them would eliminate the thread leakage worry. Thanks, gator.
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Old 04-26-2019, 07:39 AM   #8
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When I replaced hoses on my F53, I also installed speedbleeders. I still had the DW pump the brakes, but the speed bleeders eliminate the need to close the bleeder between strokes.

F53 Replacing Brake Hoses – 1999 Southwind 35S


..
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Old 04-26-2019, 08:32 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youracman View Post
With a power bleeder as pictured above, there is always positive pressure (whether bleeding a teaspoonful or a quart) so when you loosen the bleeder 1/4 turn or so, if there was any thread leakage it would be brake fluid coming out rather than air going in. I close the bleeder valve before relieving the pressure on the power bleeder tank.

In the past, when bleeding by pumping the master cylinder, I have always just made sure the end of the bleeder hose is immersed in brake fluid in the bottom of my catch bottle but of course air could enter via the bleeder threads ..... on the master cylinder's backstroke. I note some guys put a bit of a grease dam around the threads for that reason.

I'll look into the speedbleeders. The ck valve in them would eliminate the thread leakage worry. Thanks, gator.
ah, got it, thought it was a suction type bleeder
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Old 04-26-2019, 11:22 AM   #10
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Always start at the right rear left rear right front then left front when bleeding
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Old 04-26-2019, 03:37 PM   #11
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Always start at the right rear left rear right front then left front when bleeding
That's what I have always done........and did in this case, Stew. The RR and then the LR worked great, just ran into some "self induced" trouble at the RF and LF........but got it whupped today.

I went over today and had the DW work the pedal. Got much bigger bubbles and higher flow rate that way than with the power bleeder. Soon no bubbles at all. So I hooked up the power bleeder again and bled the RF and then the LF. So I now have flushed all the old fluid out and have nice clear fluid all around and the system is well bled.

Thanks to all who responded...........appreciate it.
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Old 05-02-2019, 10:41 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by youracman View Post
That's what I have always done........and did in this case, Stew. The RR and then the LR worked great, just ran into some "self induced" trouble at the RF and LF........but got it whupped today.

I went over today and had the DW work the pedal. Got much bigger bubbles and higher flow rate that way than with the power bleeder. Soon no bubbles at all. So I hooked up the power bleeder again and bled the RF and then the LF. So I now have flushed all the old fluid out and have nice clear fluid all around and the system is well bled.

Thanks to all who responded...........appreciate it.

Glad you got it fixed. I used to use a power bleeder like that, but eventually found there suggested air pressure levels were too high. I never looked for bubbles, but at 40psi or so I would get a nice firm pedal, close the bleeders, and 10 minutes later the pedal would be spongy. I concluded that air could still dissolve in the brake fluid and slowly come out of solution later on.



When I limited the pressure t0 10psi, it all worked much better. Also, by recycing the brake fluid, you may have been exaggrating this effect
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Old 05-06-2019, 12:57 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by Waiter21 View Post
When I replaced hoses on my F53, I also installed speedbleeders. I still had the DW pump the brakes, but the speed bleeders eliminate the need to close the bleeder between strokes.

F53 Replacing Brake Hoses – 1999 Southwind 35S


..
Wanting speed bleeders for my ford f53 18000gvwr chassis. Where did you find them? Do you have part # for them . Would appreciate any info you could supply. Thanks in advance
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Old 05-06-2019, 02:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Do you have part # for them
I got them from Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MU75MO



,
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