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Old 04-04-2013, 08:55 PM   #15
mre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roll View Post
The OP has a Ford V-10 consistent with the general heading of this category, Ford Chassis.

I got a little confused with the diesel discussion and wonder if that should be a separate topic thread.


Roll
I apologize for the diesel thing, I guess I got a little carried away. My 10+ years of RVing have been with larger 5th wheels and diesels so I am very much in tune with that.

Based on my experience with diesel and tuners, I applied the same logic to gassers. With diesel, I have read about some of the damage done by tuners in RVing rigs and know that tuners do change things and push engines to the outside or beyond their designed parameters which cause these negative affects. With diesels and the close monitoring by GM plus the problem RVers encountered with their use I decided not to use one.

I am just trying to determine what kind of damage can occur with gas tuner and under what conditions and does the tuner manufacturer build in safeguards to help prevent damage (i.e., the engine will defuel if the engine or transmission starts running to hot).

ed
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:08 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roll View Post
The OP has a Ford V-10 consistent with the general heading of this category, Ford Chassis.

I got a little confused with the diesel discussion and wonder if that should be a separate topic thread.

Anyway noting James' comments I would add I had my Ford chassis in for service ( and service on the gen set) without a hitch. I intended to replace the Brazels tune with the original programing and then reinstall Brazels tune when I got it back home. But I forgot to make the change and apparently it didn't matter since it never came up in discussion.

Roll
Unless you have an engine failure, it will not likely matter. Transmission issues will also not likely matter. We can and do check calibration in the PCM but unless we can prove that it was the cause of the failure, the warranty will remain. However, an engine failure may be closely looked at.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:25 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by jamesrxx951 View Post
Unless you have an engine failure, it will not likely matter. Transmission issues will also not likely matter. We can and do check calibration in the PCM but unless we can prove that it was the cause of the failure, the warranty will remain. However, an engine failure may be closely looked at.
How many engine failures have you seen in the newer version of the V-10, (362 HP)?

Of those how many had a tune that you know of and did Ford deny warranty? Just curious.

What's your take on the tune regarding opening up use of 1st gear in normal mode and reducing downshifting for smaller grades?

As a Ford product customer it really seems to enhance the product and increases my satisfaction with Ford. Ford can't think that's all bad.

Interested in your opinion since you seem to have the inside track.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:33 PM   #18
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I have owned Fords chassis since 88 and can relate to the Ford old engines and the V-10 as to their drive ability and screaming engines, up and down shifts on grades.
Had the Banks systems on a couple also.
What caught my eye on this thread was the upgrade by Brazels on Alan's Ford I thought most Ford owners were going with the 5 Star which has satisfied many.
Back in 2003 I purchased a Workhorse under a Newmar not knowing what I was really getting into in relation to the chassis.
Up until the WH I had a Ford 460 on a John Deer chassis and that was fun with manifold problems and the old gas engine but the WH was a complete surprise as to ride and weight carrying capacity of Newmar box as compared to the Ford truck chassis's that needed beefing up to support the Newmars.
Met Mike Brazel at the 05 Tenn. irv2 rally and had the Upgrade installed and I can understand Alan's excitement with what little he has driven his coach so far.
The Upgrade on my WH engine was the best thing ever I could have done I set the coach on cruise and just let her go with the Allison Trans and 8.1 its the most relaxing experience I have ever had with all my gas coach's and I believe Alan will get the same result.
Brazels is a sponsor on irv2 and you can send a PM to him, Jon, to look in to this thread and I am sure he can answer some of the questions, he is on the Workhorse & Spartan forums all the time giving us answers with problems.
Alan has a 06 chassis but it would be interesting to see what a new 2011 Ford chassis would be like with the Upgrade plus new trans and improved chassis would be like to drive.
I still have a Ford at heart but the WH is or was a great chassis also.
I am to old to get into new chassis but you younger guys can have the fun of dancing around now and experiencing the rides. Safe travels.
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Old 04-04-2013, 09:48 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Roll View Post
How many engine failures have you seen in the newer version of the V-10, (362 HP)?

Of those how many had a tune that you know of and did Ford deny warranty? Just curious.

What's your take on the tune regarding opening up use of 1st gear in normal mode and reducing downshifting for smaller grades?

As a Ford product customer it really seems to enhance the product and increases my satisfaction with Ford. Ford can't think that's all bad.

Interested in your opinion since you seem to have the inside track.
From my experiance (ford tech and worked for Ford in allen park) the V10 of all years are great engines. Im sure there have been failures but it is not trend setting by any means from what i can see. Most tune related warranty denials have been related to engine failures in mustangs (the tuners eliminated the Ford calibration for #8 cyl protection) and ecoboost vehicles. Actually found a video of the customer running 11s or 12's in a flex. That motor was turned down. Some shift issues were not warrantable because the PCM needed replacement. The aftermarket calibration could not be removed fully.

Im not exactly sure what you mean by "What's your take on the tune regarding opening up use of 1st gear in normal mode and reducing downshifting for smaller grades?". If you are talking about the 2nd gear skip shift, i think it has more to do with allowing the coast clutch to remain on. The 5R110W (torque shift 5) is a 6 speed transmission that only uses 5 of those speeds depending on transmission temps. However in the larger chassis like the F53, tow/haul is on to a lesser degree. The coast clutch is kept on except in 2nd and 6th. With the OD clutch turned on the coast clutch cannot be turned on or expensive things happen.

I dont have any info on the shift calibration tables but if i was to guess, the downshifts are likely due to emissions and the customers demands on maintaining set speed. I also prefer for the engine to work at lower RPM than to rev but the calibration team deemed it necessary for this type of shift schedule.

The best info i can give with any engine is to use Ford filters. We have seen a lot of upper cylinder head failures from the budget oil filters breaking up and blocking passages in the heads. This is not a cheap repair by any means. The filters are a small percentage more but it is also an insurance policy.

For example, an older taurus was brought in for an oil change. over 100K on the clock. The Ford oil filter (the first we have seen) blew off the can portion of the filter and the engine was damage. Because it was a Ford filter, this customer recieved a reman engine from Ford. Not a junk yard engine or no run around.
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Old 04-05-2013, 04:12 AM   #20
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Great!!!! Good to hear you happy...... I am still debating which way to go. Is brazel something you can install or does it have to be done by them? Did you consider 5 Star?

Sorry others took over your thread , Thanks again for the info.
CC - Brazels just sent me a tuner UPS, I scanned my particular engine code, emailed Jon Brazel with that code, he emailed the tune to me, I attached the supplied USB cable to it and downloaded the tune, hooked it back up the MH and switched out the original tune for the new one. It can be undone when you want and it can be used on any Ford V10, if I understand correctly. Also all future updates are free. I have worked with Brazels on other things so I have trust established and they have other things for RV's I might want. I considered, Banks, Bullydog, Edge but most of those really specialize more in diesels. My goal was better MPG and to stop the transmission from dropping out way too soon. I think between the more HP and changing shift points a trip out west won't be so aggravating.

No problem on the thread, it is for all of us to jump in on.


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Old 04-05-2013, 05:00 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007";1519973]I have owned Fords chassis since 88 and can relate to the Ford old engines and the V-10 as to their drive ability and screaming engines, up and down shifts on grades.
Had the Banks systems on a couple also.
What caught my eye on this thread was the upgrade by Brazels on Alan's Ford I thought most Ford owners were going with the 5 Star which has satisfied many.
Back in 2003 I purchased a Workhorse under a Newmar not knowing what I was really getting into in relation to the chassis.
Up until the WH I had a :bow: Ford 460 on a John Deer chassis and that was fun with manifold problems and the old gas engine but the WH was a complete surprise as to ride and weight carrying capacity of Newmar box as compared to the Ford truck chassis's that needed beefing up to support the Newmars.
Met Mike Brazel at the 05 Tenn. irv2 rally and had the Upgrade installed and I can understand Alan's excitement with what little he has driven his coach so far.
The Upgrade on my WH engine was the best thing ever I could have done I set the coach on cruise and just let her go with the Allison Trans and 8.1 its the most relaxing experience I have ever had with all my gas coach's and I believe Alan will get the same result.
[URL="https://www.brazelsrv.com/
Brazels[/URL] is a sponsor on irv2 and you can send a PM to him, Jon, to look in to this thread and I am sure he can answer some of the questions, he is on the Workhorse & Spartan forums all the time giving us answers with problems.
Alan has a 06 chassis but it would be interesting to see what a new 2011 Ford chassis would be like with the Upgrade plus new trans and improved chassis would be like to drive.
I still have a Ford at heart but the WH is or was a great chassis also.
I am to old to get into new chassis but you younger guys can have the fun of dancing around now and experiencing the rides. Safe travels.
007 - I am no whiz bang on computers so I will probably email Jon when I get a chance and see if he can answer any questions. I don't know how to PM on here. I try to remember all the stuff he has told me but my memory just isn't what it used to be. My understanding is that all manufacturers have one tune for all engines that are the same i.e. all V10's will have the same tune no matter what vehicle they go in to satisfy EPA guidelines. The custom tune Brazels builds for you reprograms the ECM more to what you are driving so if the original OEM tune is designed around a lighter weight pickup it would downshift quicker in a MH because of the added weight over a pickup which is what all of us Ford chassis owners are seeing. That was what I took away from all my questions to Jon. I may be right, I may be wrong and I may be crazy (great hook for a song ;-) but so far I am quite happy.


These guys are very willing to help you over the phone, emails and about anything else. I learned that service after the sale last year when I undertook a project I found was out was beyond my capabilities but a guy out there named Allen hung with me, sent me emails and pictures till I finally figured it out! Now that is service but i am not doing that again! My bad! I will schedule a trip out there and have them do the install. They do them in a couple of hours. It took me most of eight hours.


Sorry, I am reliving that nightmare from last year when I thought I was younger than I really am! Lol! I can't speak for five star tunes but I did go look at their site. It apperaed to me iit was geared more to pickups and MH's were more of a sideline, that was my thought. I wanted a company geared more to MH's for more indepth knowledge and experience. The more you do the better you get.


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Old 04-06-2013, 07:25 AM   #22
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Your Brazels tune is engineered for your Ford F-53 chassis just as my WH is, which is different from yours.
If it was a different chassis the design would only be for that chassis not some other.
You will be happy with the upgrade will make a big difference in driving once the ECM program learns your driving habits. Just note anytime you disconnect your chassis battery the ECM will have to relearn your driving habits as any upgrade would have too.
To send a PM to someone just click on his Avatar and a PM link will show and go from there. It will say send a private message.
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:14 PM   #23
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Your Brazels tune is engineered for your Ford F-53 chassis just as my WH is, which is different from yours.
If it was a different chassis the design would only be for that chassis not some other.
You will be happy with the upgrade will make a big difference in driving once the ECM program learns your driving habits. Just note anytime you disconnect your chassis battery the ECM will have to relearn your driving habits as any upgrade would have too.
To send a PM to someone just click on his Avatar and a PM link will show and go from there. It will say send a private message.
007 - I did not know the ECM has to learn a persons driving habits! Thanks for that little piece of information! Also the PM part. I am pretty new to IRV2 and don't know all the things this site can do. I am looking forward to living on the road for a while sometime in the future but my wife thinks I am out of my mind getting the MH set up already. I say the sooner the better! I am ready to see America!

Alan
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Old 04-06-2013, 10:45 PM   #24
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There is allot to see and the sooner the better never know whats in the future ahead of you.
Enjoy and safe travels and take the wife along she maybe surprise what is out there.
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Old 04-24-2013, 05:39 AM   #25
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Well, it is still too cold to camp here in the Midwest. Can anyone tell me when summer will get here? Lol! Anyway I took the MH out last weekend for its monthly exercise and got drive it more than just a few miles and the shifting is by far better than before. Traveling roads and hills I was familiar with made it much easier to compare seat of the pants. One particularly steep grade always made it shift down from OD to third and then almost immediately to the. Next gear for a final rpm of about 4200 - 4400 depending on the cruise setting. This time I was braced for it and I could not believe how long it hung in there almost to the TOP before it did finally drop out of OD and then on over the hill. Told the wife I think it is time to head West and take on the mountains! I also noticed that on downhill grades the transmission holds it back. I don't remember if the old tune did that or not but that is going to be real handy on the other side. I have not been able to travel far enough t get any mileage stats, besides it is too darn cold to enjoy the outdoors here.
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