Changing your own tranny fluid

[marjoa]

Originally Posted by Mark Kovalsky

I would never, never, NEVER allow the chemicals BG uses inside one of my transmissions.

Why?

[Mark Kovalsky]

Originally Posted by Davidjeff

Not all have internal thermostats, some are mounted externally in a block that the cooler lines pass thru as some of the 4r100 as well, the cooler lines are arranged differently on the 4r100 to the torque shift.

Yes, they are different. And that's why the flush method you describe works well on a 4R100, but WILL NOT work on a TorqShift trans.

The 4R100 does not have a thermostat, either internal or external. It does have a bypass on the side of the trans. There is no thermostat in that bypass, just a pressure relief. If the pressure in the cooling circuit gets too high, this relief opens and the fluid bypasses the cooler. This is necessary because the return from the cooler is used to lube the rear half of the trans. If the cooler were to plug and this bypass wasn't there the trans would fail very quickly.

Originally Posted by Davidjeff

And it does still work on all Ford transmissions to date including torque shift 5 and 6 and it also works on the new 10 speed Ford has now, the reason I stated both lines directing to the bucket is to eleminate confusion on know which line will push fluid and when, this will guarantee minimal mess.

If you try it to flush a TorqShift, it will appear to be working. But that's because you don't know what's happening inside the trans.

When the trans is below the thermostat temp 90% of the normal flow is diverted from the cooler. So 10% will come out of the cooler line and be changed. 90% of the old fluid will mix with the new fluid. So as you run it the old and new mix.

Originally Posted by Davidjeff

Mike I see you are a former Ford engineer

Who's Mike?

Originally Posted by Davidjeff

and many things you have stated I am not arguing but I have practiced this in the field and the findings are as I have posted. Without the thermobypass valve not opening one might risk leaving old oil in the cooler and lines which I feel would not be more than a couple of quarts. By opening a cooler line the trans will flow opposite until the thermostat opens.

No, that's not how it works. If the thermostat doesn't open there is still some flow to the coolers. That's why it appears to be working for you. But what it really is doing is mixing the old and new, then letting you change a small percentage of the mixed fluid.

Originally Posted by marjoa

Why?

Because I don't trust the flush chemicals to be compatible with the materials inside the transmission. Transmissions are extremely sensitive and who really understands what those chemicals do to everything inside? If you are comfortable with it, go for it. I believe in changing the fluid, but only using the recommended type of fluid. No additives and no additional chemicals.

[icepick]

Wow, I think ILL just go to Cummins Bridgway in new Hudson MI, they work on Ford Chassis, and have them do it, you all have givin me a headache. Thanks for the replys. Im thinking it might be smart not to try this myself

[marjoa]

Originally Posted by Mark Kovalsky

Because I don't trust the flush chemicals to be compatible with the materials inside the transmission. Transmissions are extremely sensitive and who really understands what those chemicals do to everything inside? If you are comfortable with it, go for it. I believe in changing the fluid, but only using the recommended type of fluid. No additives and no additional chemicals.

Oh...so it's a trust issue.

For other readers of this forum...
I have used BG products (in all my fluid systems) BG Flush and synthetic ATF in all my vehicles for years including 2 FORD pickup's and my MH with is a V10. BG has performed years of controlled studies that prove their products enhance the longevity & prevent premature wear and help keep engines & transmissions run cooler because we all know—heat—is the main killer of these 2 drive units. There are many other things that BG addresses with their fluids in today's complicated power plants that I won't go into here. BG so stands behind their products that they guarantee it with backing it up with putting up their money up for repairs if something bad happens. BTW...I have a very good friend here in Houston who owns one of the top auto repair shops here in town and has been in business 31 years so he's seen it all and he highly recommends BG to all his customers. Those that choose to do so, are putting 300K - 400K miles on their vehicles and are still running strong. His Ford gas pickup has 424K on it. No I don't work for BG, these are real time, boots on the ground numbers.

Now for those of us who own a Ford Motorhome with a TorqShift™ 5-speed tranny, hauling all that weight, going over all different types of terrain, towing a vehicle etc., it's still highly recommended that you keep your eye on the color of the ATF and make sure it stays healthy. But because of the conditions we drive in which is considered "Severe Duty" and should be flushed and changed every 15K miles and 20K at the the most. I don't care what the manual says. If you really want to monitor your oils and go s step further, pull fluids, send them to a lab for testing once a year.

[Pirate]

Mark, your opinions please. 2006 drain fluid from pan, refill. run for year or so. Drain fluid from pan, run for year or so. One or 2 more cycles. Do you think that is a good enough "transfer" of fluid to cover fluid change?

[Mark Kovalsky]

Originally Posted by Pirate

Mark, your opinions please. 2006 drain fluid from pan, refill. run for year or so. Drain fluid from pan, run for year or so. One or 2 more cycles. Do you think that is a good enough "transfer" of fluid to cover fluid change?

That's not a bad way to go, given the difficulty of changing all of the fluid.

[spyderRV]

I changed my transmission fluid on my 1999 4r100. It has a drain plug on the torque converter so I emptied that. Pulled the pan, dumped the fluid and replaced the filter. Disconnected one of the cooler lines at the cooler and drained it. Put it back together with the original pan gasket, added about 2 gallons of mercon V and started it. added fluid until it was at the bottom of the hash marks.

Maybe took 2 hours.

[Davidjeff]

Originally Posted by Mark Kovalsky

That's not a bad way to go, given the difficulty of changing all of the fluid.

Mark, being you were a Ford Trans Engineer I will bow to your knowledge and appreciate the input you give us on this web group...

[garys 68]

Mark has infinitely more experience than me, so I'm glad to hear him say that. But that's what I've done on all my vehicles for years. You might want to consider swapping out a pan with a drain plug, if you don't have one, to make future changes much easier....and a lot less messy.
A pan with more capacity will change out a greater percentage of fluid without having to drain the torque converter too.

Originally Posted by Pirate

Mark, your opinions please. 2006 drain fluid from pan, refill. run for year or so. Drain fluid from pan, run for year or so. One or 2 more cycles. Do you think that is a good enough "transfer" of fluid to cover fluid change?

[marjoa]

Originally Posted by Mark Kovalsky

That's not a bad way to go, given the difficulty of changing all of the fluid.

Mark,
With all these complexities you've listed, and the rarity of a heated flush machine, could you please just list then the proper procedure—that a shop—should use for a TorqShift™ 5-speed in a MH and what is actually possible for a thorough ATF change out?

[Mark Kovalsky]

Originally Posted by marjoa

Mark,
With all these complexities you've listed, and the rarity of a heated flush machine, could you please just list then the proper procedure—that a shop—should use for a TorqShift™ 5-speed in a MH and what is actually possible for a thorough ATF change out?

There are two possibilities. They can do a partial change by only changing what's in the pan, or they can connect it to a heated flush machine to change all of the fluid.

I suppose there is one other method. They could take the trans out and tear it down to get all the fluid out. I do not recommend this method.

[Pirate]

Originally Posted by Mark Kovalsky

I suppose there is one other method. They could take the trans out and tear it down to get all the fluid out. I do not recommend this method.

Funny.

[Dtwallace]

You can never get 100% of the old fluid out during a service.

There is actually no reason or need to remove 100% of the old fluid unless your transmission has or is experiencing an internal parts failure such as burned out clutches or metal exchanging.

Transmissions like other hydraulic systems don't produce deposits in its oil like an internal combustion engine, since there is no combustion, just circulation, lubrication, and cooling.

The heating and cooling cycle is where a hydraulic system picks up most of it's contaminants in the form of acid moisture that in time break down the additives in the fluid that will inhibit it's ability to lubricate. This is why we change the fluid at timed intervals.

It's not necessary to change 100% of the fluid in a system that is working efficiently and has not experienced excessive internal wear.

Rather using the BG flush systems, or the old drop the pan and plug method, you are accomplishing the same level of service. One may be easier, neater than the other, but in the end the service is the same. No magic involved.

DTW

[BrianGlenn]

Anecdotally I have heard non Ford shops contaminate tranny fluids with the use of different tranny fluids in the same flush machine (hold up fluid in the internals, or hoses). Ultimately creating problems in some trannys that only work well with OEM fluids; not sure if the TorqShift is one of those...

For this reason I only had Ford service departments changeout my F350 6.4L tranny fluid.

Brian