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Old 05-12-2015, 11:26 AM   #2857
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This is the reason why. Mine was popping real bad and installed the z brackets and it went away.


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Old 05-12-2015, 10:20 PM   #2858
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The z-brackets are the problem. When I lift the sway bar to bolt to the link (as in the picture), and reverse the z-bracket, the top of the z-bracket will hit the rod on the link if the coach is raised 2 3/4 inches. Assume it would bend the link if there is enough twist on the sway bar. Somewhere on this thread I remember that did happen to someone when they did this on their front without lengthening the link ... they did bend their link. I don't have a way to grind or cut a little off the z-bar, but if I could remove a 1/2 inch or so, that would probably work. Never thought of just leaving the z-bracket off and just replacing with a grade 5 or grade 8 bolt with big washers ... that might work unless the extra support is needed or I get the popping noise that Johndale was referring to. I have the 22,000lb chassis and don't have the z-brackets on the front. I do have the z-brackets on the top end of both the front and back links. Fronts would be extremely hard to remove -- probably would have to pay someone to do that. Has anyone just left the z-brackets off and replaced with a higher grade bolt on the rear?


Someone with a creative mind might be able to invent and designed a way to lengthen the links without removing them ... such as an extension that would bolt into the existing link bottom hole and somehow rap around the rod to keep it straight/stationary. I'm not that person and probably not possible.


Sorry I don't have anymore pictures. Thanks for all your help.
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Old 05-14-2015, 09:07 AM   #2859
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I think, if I remember right, (getting old and forgetful), that the stock bolt is harder than a grade 8. Like a 9.9 or something. Tejay help me out here, but I think I'm right. I haven't heard anyone here say they have broken a stock bolt, lengthened or not.
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Old 05-14-2015, 12:59 PM   #2860
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FINALLY GOT THE CHF DONE!
I've been planning to do this for the past couple years.
When I first crawled under to do it over a year ago ('99' F53 chassis without leveling jacks), I couldn't get the bolts out of the front links as they were right in line with the leaf springs.
Then I had hoped to be upgrading the rig soon, but with a daughter in college & another talking marriage in the not too distant future, that appears to be unlikely! :(
Soooo... decided it was probably best to replace the 8 year old tires and keep her awhile longer.
Figured while my tire guy had her, it would be much easier for him to do the CHF.
(6) New Sumitomo's, New poly bushings & CHF front & back =
A VERY NICE 25 mile ride home!
Wow I think all you CHF cheerleaders were 100% right.
It felt like a whole new rig!
Can't wait to get her out on a longer test run.

My tire guy did talk about clearance probs on the front and not being able to reverse the Z-Brackets? So it's now set-up without the Z-Brackets.
I've got to get under it and take a good look at what he was talking about though.
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Old 05-14-2015, 03:51 PM   #2861
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Cheap Handling Fix CHF
This is what he was talking about. You need to remove about 1/4 inch were the link is close to z bracket. That bracket stops a popping sound in the front end.


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Old 05-15-2015, 06:53 AM   #2862
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Is there any problem not having the front "Z" brackets re-installed?
(If I remember right, I've seen many pics without them)

Front Passenger side before CHF:


Front Passenger side after CHF:


And here's my rear after CHF:
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Old 05-15-2015, 07:23 AM   #2863
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAUTIQUE View Post
Is there any problem not having the front "Z" brackets re-installed?
(If I remember right, I've seen many pics without them)

Front Passenger side before CHF:


Front Passenger side after CHF:


And here's my rear after CHF:
Some people experienced a popping sound that was being caused by not having the z brackets. I have them on the rear of my coach but it came without them on the front. Mine is a 2014 chassis.

looking at your pics you may want to consider lengthening the front rods. Notice how the sway bar is almost in a parallel line with the link. You want that sway bar to be closer to perpendicular to the link.

Imagine you hit a big pothole and when the coach rebounds that link is going to pull up and taking with it the swaybar. There is the possibility of the 2 becoming a straight line and when the coach comes back down it could shear off or bend the link. Whats the chance of that perfect storm? Probably little....unless your me!
The sway bar gets its maximum effectiveness from a perpendicular angle, the closer to parallel the more rigid the link becomes making sway completely non existent which defeats the purpose.
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Old 05-15-2015, 07:41 AM   #2864
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NAUTIQUE, how do you like the Steer Safe unit? Does it mount only on one side or is there one on each side? Did you install it and if you did was there noticeable difference in steering effort to turn?
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Old 05-15-2015, 09:08 AM   #2865
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Insane938,
You are correct on the bolt breakage. To the best of my recollection nobody had broken anything related to the CHF. The Z- brackets have been the only issue.

In reference to lengthening the front links. For the first 60 to 100 pages of this thread people talked but I don't think anybody lengthened them. Then some wanted to reduce the chance of lifting the front wheels when on an unlevel spot in a CG so some started lengthening them.

Then it was recognized as pointed out above it is BEST that the link act at right angles to the sway bar (more correctly called a stabilizer bar). That reduces the potential extra wear on the bushings and undoubtedly makes the CHF work more efficiently.
The best way to do that is (with the coach on level ground and on the tires) remove both SB links bolts. Move the SB down until the attaching point is level. Measure the distance needed for lengthening the links and then, "Get er done." You really don't have to be exact just get it closer to level.

From now on I am going to use SB (short for Stabilizer Bar) instead of sway bar or anti-sway bar. Stabilizer bar is such a better description for what it does than sway bar.

This is a forum to communicate ideas. Anything we can do to improve communication (IMO) is a good thing.

Additional points. We have a 2013 chassis. I have Z-brackets on all link connections except the lower fronts. Also way back in this thread the popping sound had by some was eliminated by correctly torquing the link connections. If my lower fronts don't have and apparently don't need Z-brackets then why do I have them in the other three locations??

Just a reminder. This is one of or thee longest thread on any forum. As of this date following the implementation of the CHF upgrade nobody has reported breaking anything on the F-53 Stabilizer Bar (SB) factory set up. Many, many, many have reported significant improvement to the ride and handling of their coaches. Again many thanks, John!!!

TeJay
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:14 AM   #2866
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knightab View Post
NAUTIQUE, how do you like the Steer Safe unit? Does it mount only on one side or is there one on each side? Did you install it and if you did was there noticeable difference in steering effort to turn?
Knightab,
I came by the SteerSafe back on 07 on my first long trip with wonderful F53 rig.
Took her from New England down to Myrtle Beach on an April Spring vacay.
Had some tough weather with high winds all the way down & she was all over the road .
As a newbie I went to M.B. Camping World and said I needed to do something to help the stability before driving home. They suggested the SteerSafe and I had it installed. - It is one on each side.

My feeling on it...
I really do like it.
It seems to tighten up the steering play. Much less steer adjustment needed for side force from winds/passing trucks. Now very subtle input keeps her going straight.
+ Advertised to provide added safety if you hit potholes or have blow-out (luckily haven't had to test that yet!)
You do hear a little "sproing" noise from springs on slow tight turn, but I kind like that

The SteerSafe, combined with all my other tweaks, has the rig handling pretty nice .
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:19 AM   #2867
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So Tejay, you've been around this thread a long time, are you saying plenty have been fine without lengthening the links and not having Z-bracket?
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Old 05-15-2015, 10:22 AM   #2868
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAUTIQUE View Post
Knightab,
I came by the SteerSafe back on 07 on my first long trip with wonderful F53 rig.
Took her from New England down to Myrtle Beach on an April Spring vacay.
Had some tough weather with high winds all the way down & she was all over the road .
As a newbie I went to M.B. Camping World and said I needed to do something to help the stability before driving home. They suggested the SteerSafe and I had it installed. - It is one on each side.

My feeling on it...
I really do like it.
It seems to tighten up the steering play. Much less steer adjustment needed for side force from winds/passing trucks. Now very subtle input keeps her going straight.
+ Advertised to provide added safety if you hit potholes or have blow-out (luckily haven't had to test that yet!)
You do hear a little "sproing" noise from springs on slow tight turn, but I kind like that

The SteerSafe, combined with all my other tweaks, has the rig handling pretty nice .
Thanks for the feedback! I was just curious. I had already installed the Safe T Plus stabilizer with the shock. I like the way yours is designed, it looks to be a much firmer and stable system for maintaining the center.
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Old 05-15-2015, 11:09 AM   #2869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NAUTIQUE View Post
So Tejay, you've been around this thread a long time, are you saying plenty have been fine without lengthening the links and not having Z-bracket?


Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByiRV2 - RV Forum1431705762.357775.jpg
Views:	89
Size:	105.6 KB
ID:	94324
If you leave the z brackets on when moving the links this happens. They will bend.
Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByiRV2 - RV Forum1431705927.656879.jpg
Views:	80
Size:	101.6 KB
ID:	94325
This is with the new extended links with z brackets. I ended up adding 1/2 inch more making it 12 1/2 inches and trimmed the z bracket. Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByiRV2 - RV Forum1431706183.358790.jpg
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Size:	99.9 KB
ID:	94326



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Old 05-15-2015, 12:24 PM   #2870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Johndale View Post
Attachment 94324
If you leave the z brackets on when moving the links this happens. They will bend.
Attachment 94325
This is with the new extended links with z brackets. I ended up adding 1/2 inch more making it 12 1/2 inches and trimmed the z bracket. Attachment 94326



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Ahhhh, so you've got extended links & trim'd the Z-bracket.

But... I'm still trying to understand if there will be any problems with my new set-up without the Z?
Sounds like getting the stabilizer bar more level may be the optimum set-up, but I'm guessing Tejay is saying that many had it like mine when John Mc started this CHF phenomenon??
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