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Old 03-01-2019, 12:21 PM   #5447
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Just to add an additional possibility for some.

A better solution my be to buy new, factory sway bar links and have a welding shop extend them from 10" (on center) to 13". This can easily be done by pressing out the bushings, cutting the stock sway bar link in half, slipping a sleeve (piece of steel pipe) over the link ends and weld them to achieve 13". Then press the bushings back in. Because of the added thickness of the new sleeve it may not be necessary to harden it.

I suggest not using your existing links just in case you have issues with the results.

The cost would probably be about the same as the Hellwig Adjustable links but you would maintain the stock bushing configuration.

Just a thought that I would throw out there.

Here's a link to stock links:
https://www.autopartswarehouse.com/s...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

Here's a link to the Hellwig links:
https://www.sdtrucksprings.com/hellw...-bar-end-links

ALSO....... There is some discussion on "Which way is up" on the Hellwig links.

Structurally, it really doesn't matter (in my opinion). I installed mine with the threaded end down to avoid water getting in the threads. This can cause seizing of the assembly and also premature failure from corrosion.

Others have felt that the threads should go up, thereby placing the strongest part of the link to the sway bar.
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Old 03-01-2019, 01:19 PM   #5448
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I will soon be picking up my new to me rv and the previous owner installed Roadmaster Reflex Steering Stabilizer and auxiliary rear sway bars on it. He said this made it easy to handle when passed by trucks, etc. So, do you think I need to perform the Cheap Handling Fix on it or just leave well enough alone?

Thanks in advance for any replies.
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Old 03-01-2019, 02:34 PM   #5449
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CHF

From what I've seen and read those who had a front and two rear stabilizer bars still had SWAY improvements if they added the CHF to either the fronts rears or both. Nobody has said they had to much SWAY control.
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Old 03-01-2019, 03:54 PM   #5450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richp5 View Post
I will soon be picking up my new to me rv and the previous owner installed Roadmaster Reflex Steering Stabilizer and auxiliary rear sway bars on it. He said this made it easy to handle when passed by trucks, etc. So, do you think I need to perform the Cheap Handling Fix on it or just leave well enough alone?

Thanks in advance for any replies.
I think you should drive it and see how YOU feel. If he already installed a HD rear sway bar (Pics please), you may not have an issue. If he did indeed install an auxiliary swaybar (see pic), I would not do the CHF on the rear. You may sill want to do it on the front. I did, and my coach is very stable now. I can even feel a significant difference when the coach is parked (without levelers down). The coach feels far more solid just walking around inside or entering the coach.

As before, I would recommend that you inspect the rear sway bar mounting brackets and bushings. If one or both bushings look cockeyed in the bracket or one/both of the brackets are missing or loose, you will need to correct that.

Anyone that has an F53 chassis motorhome should inspect those bushings and brackets periodically. They are well known to come loose for no apparent reason. When they do that, the sway bar is rendered useless.
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Old 03-01-2019, 04:58 PM   #5451
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wavery View Post
I think you should drive it and see how YOU feel. If he already installed a HD rear sway bar (Pics please), you may not have an issue. If he did indeed install an auxiliary swaybar (see pic), I would not do the CHF on the rear. You may sill want to do it on the front. I did, and my coach is very stable now. I can even feel a significant difference when the coach is parked (without levelers down). The coach feels far more solid just walking around inside or entering the coach.

As before, I would recommend that you inspect the rear sway bar mounting brackets and bushings. If one or both bushings look cockeyed in the bracket or one/both of the brackets are missing or loose, you will need to correct that.

Anyone that has an F53 chassis motorhome should inspect those bushings and brackets periodically. They are well known to come loose for no apparent reason. When they do that, the sway bar is rendered useless.


What brand is that aux rear sway bar?
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Old 03-02-2019, 06:47 AM   #5452
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To summarize this thread on extending the links at first we didn't think it was necessary. Then many reported front tires were coming off the ground sooner with the CHF than without. Keep in mind if you do the CHF in the rear the rear tires are not affected. Soon some began extending the links around 2" and that helped. Then it was discovered 3" was better so that was done by some.

Then many didn't like the angles getting closer to 180 degrees and felt this stressed the bushings. so more started extending the top links.

Some started reporting some increase in ride harshness following the CHF. I'm still not convinced since there were some who had 3 stabilizer bars (SB) and didn't report any increase in harshness.

Many owners did the CHF and nothing else. They are happy with the SWAY improvements. Maybe their camping styles doesn't take them to camp ground with unlevel sights so the tires coming up wasn't an issue. Since very few reported an increase in harshness I'm not sure what's happening with that thought. My guess is angles closer to 180 degrees makes it more difficult to transfer the weight and that may increase the harshness.

Those owners who wanted to fix the 3 issues choose to do one of three methods:

1. Extend the stock links 3" by having them welded. I originally had mine done for $45. I only did it for 2" because I didn't know how far was needed. When I added adjustable plates it did the final correction to the front SB and brought the link angles very close to level.

2. Some bought the extendable links ($100) but had some issues with looseness because the bushings/bolts were not the correct sizes. If you have decent mechanical skills moving of link bushings and swapping bolts can be done to correct that issue. If you choose this method and hear some clunking when entering driveways then looseness is still present and needs fixed.

3. Some built/bought adjustable plates (about $60) which corrected the angles, stopped the tires from coming off the ground and allowed adjustment of the SWAY control. There were several designs of DIY plates posted on the thread.

The CHF has been hands down thee best DIY MOD for the F-53 chassis. It has improved the ride, handling and seat time for all passengers more than any other single MOD. How or if an owner chooses to fix the 3 down sides of this MOD are your choice.

We did the CHF in a camp ground when the RV had only 40 miles on it. We added adjustable plates with less than 6,000 miles and now have 32,000 miles. The ride and handling are very good. Gusty winds are not an issue and the wall of wind from approaching semi's is almost nothing. Adding front air bags gave us about another slight ride improvement. I'll do the rear AB's in the next few weeks.

It's still not an air ride but it didn't cost us another $7,000 or so (Kelderman MOD) or $30,000 (new DP) and since front air bags were added it's even a little smoother.

John McKinley who came up with the CHF idea back in 2010 asked me several years ago to help him support this thread. He'd noticed that I had already started doing it and was himself a bit tired of the naysayers.

If anybody has any other questions about this MOD just send me a PM.

Enjoy the ride!!!!
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Old 03-02-2019, 08:05 AM   #5453
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John McKinley agreed that extending the length of the links would decrease the effectiveness of the CHF.

In not going to cull thru almost 5500 posts, to find his mentioning it, but for those who care to look, have at it.

Of course, I agree with McKinley and jaharrell, who has been discussing this on another post, because its the way it works.

The wheels lifting, while the springs are completely unloaded, is of little consequence.
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Old 03-02-2019, 08:33 AM   #5454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by twinboat View Post
John McKinley agreed that extending the length of the links would decrease the effectiveness of the CHF.

In not going to cull thru almost 5500 posts, to find his mentioning it, but for those who care to look, have at it.

Of course, I agree with McKinley and jaharrell, who has been discussing this on another post, because its the way it works.

The wheels lifting, while the springs are completely unloaded, is of little consequence.
Thanks twinboat, at least I know I am not living crazy town over here with McKinley
by ourselves.

You can definitely have too much sway control, just keep adding bars, getting thicker ones and drilling holes closer to the bar for links or just skip all the way to the end and put steel cylinders where you would mount a air bag or Sumo, that will completely eliminate sway, I guarantee you will know the meaning of too much sway control.

I will be working a detailed post explaining what a sway bar is, what it does, and how it does it starting from first principles.

We can disagree on what changes the sway bar do for our perceived ride, but disagreeing with geometry and physics is not productive. The same goes for other types of springs such as helper air bags and Sumos.
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Old 03-02-2019, 08:49 AM   #5455
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpspaz View Post
What brand is that aux rear sway bar?
My rear auxiliary sway bar is a Roadmaster.

I must say that I bought this before I knew about the CHF or the issue of the rear sway bar brackets coming loose. I then read about the CHF but had already purchased the Roadmaster Sway Bar. After reading about the CHF, I decided to do that in the front and purchased the Hellwig adjustable links.

The day that I started the install of the new parts I also discovered that my stock, left side rear sway bar bracket was totally missing and the bushing on the right side was totally out of the bracket. This meant that my rear sway bar was rendered totally ineffective and explained my sway situation. I decided to remedy that issue and go ahead and install the new auxiliary sway bar anyway.

The reason that I bring this all up is because I REALLY don't know how effective or what a difference that the auxiliary sway bar made over the CHF.

My recommendation would be to try the CHF first (also check and replace the stock sway bar bushings) and drive the coach for awhile before spending that kind of $ on the auxiliary sway bar.

https://www.etrailer.com/Anti-Sway-B.../1139-144.html
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Old 03-02-2019, 09:21 AM   #5456
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I bought my used 2017 Bounder 35k about a year ago. Over my life I have driven lots of trucks and school buses. Because of this I had little fear of getting this 35’ box on the road. Once I got up to 55mph on the 99 fwy south of Fresno I was scared to death. How someone got 8,000 miles on this rig without putting it in a ditch was beyond me. I did the CHF with homemade extended links, put on a rear track bar, front sumo springs and a steering stabilization system. Totally different rig. I have sumo’s for the rear but just having had time to do it yet.
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Old 03-02-2019, 09:58 AM   #5457
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I bought my used 2017 Bounder 35k about a year ago. Over my life I have driven lots of trucks and school buses. Because of this I had little fear of getting this 35’ box on the road. Once I got up to 55mph on the 99 fwy south of Fresno I was scared to death. How someone got 8,000 miles on this rig without putting it in a ditch was beyond me. I did the CHF with homemade extended links, put on a rear track bar, front sumo springs and a steering stabilization system. Totally different rig. I have sumo’s for the rear but just having had time to do it yet.
I experienced the same feeling when I bought my 2000 30 ft Class C, back in 2014. Having a big rig pass us was a lane changing experence and I found myself watching the side view mirror more then the road.
It was so bad that I wouldn't let the DW drive it. She was a bus driver.

Being frugal, I chose to only replace the rear anti swaybar and upgrade all of the anti sway bar bushings to poly. ( No CHF on class Cs )

The handling was so improved that I didn't need to do anything else. I put 30,000 miles on that old MH, sharing the driving with the DW.

Sometimes, folks add more components then needed. If one add on is good, its not always the case that more add ons are better.
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Old 03-02-2019, 10:15 AM   #5458
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Thanks twinboat, at least I know I am not living crazy town over here with McKinley
by ourselves.

You can definitely have too much sway control, just keep adding bars, getting thicker ones and drilling holes closer to the bar for links or just skip all the way to the end and put steel cylinders where you would mount a air bag or Sumo, that will completely eliminate sway, I guarantee you will know the meaning of too much sway control.

I will be working a detailed post explaining what a sway bar is, what it does, and how it does it starting from first principles.

We can disagree on what changes the sway bar do for our perceived ride, but disagreeing with geometry and physics is not productive. The same goes for other types of springs such as helper air bags and Sumos.
I just picked up a 2017 Thor Axis on a E450 chassis.
As far as I can tell, the previous owner had a whole anti sway package installed. Heavy duty anti sway bars, front & rear and Sumos in the front.

I have an appointment on Monday for a wheel alignment to increase the caster. It handles well, but drifts off course a bit when I read a billboard.

I'm going to ask them to remove the front Sumos and install standard bump stops. I hope to soften up the rebound of the front end.

Its not a seat of the pants feeling but more like a belly bounce feeling. The rebound is not sharp but abrupt enough to shake my belly. I'd prefer more suspension travel.

I've tried to make the same point as you, but gave up, a few years ago. Good luck.
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Old 03-02-2019, 10:39 AM   #5459
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I just picked up a 2017 Thor Axis on a E450 chassis.
As far as I can tell, the previous owner had a whole anti sway package installed. Heavy duty anti sway bars, front & rear and Sumos in the front.

I have an appointment on Monday for a wheel alignment to increase the caster. It handles well, but drifts off course a bit when I read a billboard.

I'm going to ask them to remove the front Sumos and install standard bump stops. I hope to soften up the rebound of the front end.

Its not a seat of the pants feeling but more like a belly bounce feeling. The rebound is not sharp but abrupt enough to shake my belly. I'd prefer more suspension travel.

I've tried to make the same point as you, but gave up, a few years ago. Good luck.
The E450 front suspension is way more advanced then the F53 being independent twin I beam and coils. This should be a much better ride stock than the F53 and requires no track bar. Kelderman doesn't even bother making a kit for the front, only the back with the leafs.

Can't see any reason why you would want helper bags or Sumos up front on a e-series easier and cheaper just to switch out coils to get the ride you want, all sort of options there dual rate, progressive etc, you could even just switch the coils for air bags.
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Old 03-03-2019, 10:16 AM   #5460
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So here is an attempt to plot out the lever arm of the standard CHF vs a modified CHF where the link has been extended to create a 90 degree angle.

You can see that by lengthening your links to create a 90 degree angle you have about halved the CHF's effect.

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