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Old 03-14-2019, 10:08 AM   #5517
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This idea of loose, broken or missing bolts, and brackets on the rear (SB) stabilizer bar on the F-53 chassis is a real problem. This STICKY has, which is either above or below the CHF STICKY addressed it:

ATTENTION !!!! Ford F-53 Owners READ!!

Many owners reported the loose or missing bolts and brackets before they did the CHF. There does not appear to be any connection.

Had a friend in FL (no CHF) who discovered loose rear SB bolts so he tightened them. Then took his annual trip to OH and back to FL. He checked them and they were again loose. That happened before it became standard practice to use blue or RED lock tight on those bolts.

Did some bolts break? I've not read that but due to the looseness and constant banging many owners reported bolts that had the threads distorted or stripped along with the same happening to the nuts. I fixed one at a camp out and the bolts went in hard. We had no choice but to force them back in. The owner replaced the bolts and brackets when he got home. Later he did accuse me of stripping them until I explained how the looseness had probably stretched the threads.

When doing the CHF on the rear does the rear SB hit the differential (DF)? Yes on some units over the years it has been reported that it might hit or appears to be very close to hitting. Sometimes the rear SB went under the DF or over the top of the DF.

I have built, on request, a few sets of rear adjustable plates which allowed the SB to be raised or lowered slightly which corrected any possible interference. It has not happened very often so I can't give specific model years.

I'm convinced that using the Centramatics balances the tires continuously which negates the need to have the tires re-balanced as they wear. That was a $400 upgrade (front & rear) that I for sure don't regret.
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Old 03-14-2019, 10:36 AM   #5518
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property,

When you have the alignment done make sure you ask for a BEFORE print out of all the alignment angles. Ask them to show and explain what they will do to fix what might be wrong.

My alignment shop who works mainly on semi's told me 1/16" of toe is all that is needed. That's 1//32" for each side for a total toe of 1/16". Toe angle is a compromise. Ideally you'd want the tires to be pointed straight ahead all the time. If they are angled in it wears the tires. If there is any wear in the tie rods the tires will point straight ahead.

Also ask what Ford allows as far as CASTER angle. Yours needs to be set at the most positive for better tracking. Within reason the higher the CASTER the more weight is placed on the wheels which helps to keep it tracking STRAIGHT down the road. Positive caster is what allows a person to ride a bicycle no handed. It's also extreme on chopper MC's. It's what forces the steering wheel to return to center as you drive around a corner. Ours is set close to 6 degrees and it great. Some will tell you it will make it harder to steer. You do have power steering so not a problem.

Before power steering we often heard this phrase, "Man this drives like a truck." Trucks were difficult to steer around corners but when they were driving down the highways they handled well. Steering around corners required lifting of the front end because of the caster. Then the weight forced it back straight.
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Old 03-14-2019, 04:32 PM   #5519
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Quote:
Originally Posted by property View Post
I was thinking of rear CHF, it looks more complicated. There are 2 bolts on each side, one looks like it doesnít have a socket head and a bracket. Is that the Z bracket people are talking about? Need to get more familiar with that.
The rears were very simple and easy to do. Remove the nuts, disconnect the link, turn the bracket around 180ļ and put it back together. I did have to loosen the top link bolt on mine in order to move it and line up the bottom, but it was easy to reach.
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Old 03-15-2019, 10:58 AM   #5520
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeJay View Post
property,

When you have the alignment done make sure you ask for a BEFORE print out of all the alignment angles. Ask them to show and explain what they will do to fix what might be wrong.

My alignment shop who works mainly on semi's told me 1/16" of toe is all that is needed. That's 1//32" for each side for a total toe of 1/16". Toe angle is a compromise. Ideally you'd want the tires to be pointed straight ahead all the time. If they are angled in it wears the tires. If there is any wear in the tie rods the tires will point straight ahead.

Also ask what Ford allows as far as CASTER angle. Yours needs to be set at the most positive for better tracking. Within reason the higher the CASTER the more weight is placed on the wheels which helps to keep it tracking STRAIGHT down the road. Positive caster is what allows a person to ride a bicycle no handed. It's also extreme on chopper MC's. It's what forces the steering wheel to return to center as you drive around a corner. Ours is set close to 6 degrees and it great. Some will tell you it will make it harder to steer. You do have power steering so not a problem.

Before power steering we often heard this phrase, "Man this drives like a truck." Trucks were difficult to steer around corners but when they were driving down the highways they handled well. Steering around corners required lifting of the front end because of the caster. Then the weight forced it back straight.
TeJay

Unfortunately I didnít read your post until this morning.
My toe was 25/32 out as it was first measured. I means the toe was not in but out by just over 3/4 in.

Driving down to Eugene my stearing wheel was vibrating about 1/16 of an inch and coach was vibrating also.

Kaiser technician didnít report to me after first inspection he just made changes he thought it needed.

Toe adjusted to 1/32 on both sides or 1/16 total.

Shim caster one side.

Stearing wheel lifted and re-centered after. I read that tie rod just has one adjustable joint on F53.

He told me the size of the shim but they didnít write that or the original toe on paperwork.

Caster:
Left before 5-1/2 after 5-7/8
Right before 5-7/8 after 6-1/2

Camber left 1/2 before and after
Camber right 1/4 before and after

Kpi left before 5deg after 5-3/4 deg
KPI right before 4-1/4 deg after 2 deg

Toe was 1/32 before and after on both sides 1/16 total
But that was after first adjustment from 25/32 out.
Maybe it was after centering stearing wheel.

My Good year front tires were worn down inside smooth
and only minimal tread left above the inside indicators so
I had them install two new Michelin XZE 782 plus 100 for mount and balance on front. One was round and one needed 2 ounce.

Truck caster shim KBS2071 26.10$ plus 67.50 labor.
Alignment 169 plus 50 for centering SW.
67.50 for re centering Safety-plus

I discussed 1/16 toe with tech and told him several experienced RV erís were recommending 1/8 to 1/4 toe.

I even reported to him one of them had an alignment done there and asked for 1/4 toe and the tech with 30 yr exp told him it would cause outside tread wear on tire. Anyway that customer asked tech to set at 1/4 toe and the tech did. That forum member reported 8000 miles later he had no outside tread wear and the coach performed great.

Anyway the tech said he had 30 years experience and this will work great for you and that is how he set his own MH.

He was sincere so I said ok Iíll give it a try.

On the way home my stearing wheel was on center, it didnít pull either side and the vibration was gone on the stearing wheel and the coach was not rattling and it was quieter.

I still felt the passing trucks but with the CHF front, the Safetyplus and the newly corrected alignment to 1/16 toe from 25/32 out, and shimmed caster one side, and new balance Michelin front tires, the truck sway was much less dramatic, and I found myself unconsiously driving 70 down the freeway with one hand.

Before all this I would have been using two hand to stay in the lanes at 55 or so and wearing myself out.

Cost
about 400 alignment.
About 975 M tires
About 650 for safetplus torque wrench, breaker socket wrench and sockets plus couple of days laying under MH
Between rain and snow showers, taking off rusty anchor bolts and torqueing back with my legs at 250lbs and triple adjustment of Safetyplus.


As I was paying the alignment & tires they needed 3% for using card. For anything over 1000. That was 40$ That pissed me off because if they told me that when I scheduled I could have taken it out of the bank near my home and saved that. But I could not visualize me driving around Eugene in a MH at 4:45pm looking for a bank in a strange city and I doubt would let me drive off with the MH anyway with my walllet and drivers license so I just told them I guess I didnít have much choice and kept my cool and paid the extra 40$. I understand why they do that but they should warn tell you upfront not afterwards.
That was minor but interesting.

Well for 2 grand my MH is comfortable to drive maybe a little bumpy at times from the OM links on the CHF but I think if I don,t like that over time, your plates will give me option to easily soften a little and still enjoy CHF sway improvement, without having to mess with all the problems associated with hard to get to upper length bolts and wrong sized link bolts and wrong holes on Hellwig links.

And included two new great Michelin tires and a bunch of new wrenches and sockets.and a sore back.

Great forum, everyone learning from each other.

Thanks to all,

Property
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:16 AM   #5521
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And I forgot to mention the 3 inch 3rd degree burn on side of my head from the still hot tail pipe as I was wedged under MH adjusting the safety link. Lol
For those yet to add stearing stabilizer only 1/32 on that adjustment makes big change on pull one way or or other..
hold stearing wheel where it keeps you straight on highway and use just a slightly very slightly less when you are adjusting. Alignment people took two adjustments. Myself a complete idiot when it comes to stearing did it in three adjustments. Just make sure you do it with a cool tail pipe if you have low clearance.. My MH was up on three 3-2x 12’s and still not lots of clearance. Rolling is esdier than scooting. Who invented the wheel ?
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:51 AM   #5522
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Rear CHF and front

Quote:
Originally Posted by WyCamper View Post
The rears were very simple and easy to do. Remove the nuts, disconnect the link, turn the bracket around 180ļ and put it back together. I did have to loosen the top link bolt on mine in order to move it and line up the bottom, but it was easy to reach.
WyCamper, Thank you for the input, gives me encoragement.

Do you raise you raise chassis all the way up with jacks to see if it hits differential as reported by some. Think it depends on specific MH and whether sb is on top of bottom.

How are your sb brackets? My front ones are mounted on top but bent down a little left side front bent less hit end of axle bolt and stopped bending. Mine sits out and down front of the axel on the front.

Haven’t carefully examined my rear sb yet.

Front went well once I finally followed advice on forum and got MH completely level to be able to slip bolt in on the higher end of sb using small jack without bolt hitting springs. Rough when you live on a hill with a slanted circular driveway. Lol
Picture before CHF
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Old 03-15-2019, 11:55 AM   #5523
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WOW - 3/4 toe out.... I surprised you couldn't hear the tires squealing :-)
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:47 PM   #5524
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Quote:
Originally Posted by property View Post
I discussed 1/16 toe with tech and told him several experienced RV erís were recommending 1/8 to 1/4 toe.
I don't think anyone is recommending 1/4" toe, 1/8" sure. Ford max is 3/32", I have mine set there made a big difference from factory toe out, no discernible wear after 5000 miles. I had it at 1/8" originally and it was even tighter, liked it better, but was worried about wear and keeping in spec, but if I did it again would probably go to 1/8" I doubt it would wear enough to make a difference compared to how much it helps tracking.
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Old 03-15-2019, 12:49 PM   #5525
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The caster shim used on front alignment yesterday in Eugene was a their specialty shop made 4 inch with 1 degree angle, made with mild steel.
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:55 PM   #5526
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Yes the max toe in Ford F53 2011 spec is 3/32.

Since I was getting my 2014 F53 16,000 aligned yesterday I checked on forum to get some history. I saw a lot of people saying they had good results at 1/16, 3/32, 1/8, 1/4 and even higher. See Rodo post dated 06-06-2014, and other post on that thread as a just a few examples of what I found.

So I looked up the spec and I new it was max 3/32, but with all the experience on this forum going higher than that I wanted to make sure I did it right.

I didn’t see Tejay’s info till today saying 1/16 (1/32 ea side) was the place to set it at.

So Rodo’s post was was in same shop I was going to do I asked the tech who did the work about 1/8 to 1/4 toe in and mentioned Rodo’s experience, not by name. He responded that you will get outside tread wear if you go that high. He said he had 30 yrs experience at this and it’s even how he sett his MH.

He was sincere so I told him Ok I would try the 1/16 total toe. It worked out great as I posted earlier.

But there are quite a few people on this forum reporting success in higher toe settings from 3/32 on up to 3/8 probably a couple of dozen that I have seen.

I decided I would try mine right on nominal 1/16 total toe since this is my first MH alignment and I was glad I did after driving my 3014 F53 Thor Ace 27.1 60 miles home with huge improvements and seeing TeJay and other new posts today suggesting just that.

Thanks again for all the help, it has paid off for me.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:00 PM   #5527
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1/2 Way through CHF--Need Suggestions

With some new sockets (but no new power tools yet ) I was able to remove the bolts for both side connector arms for the front SB. I can move the side connector arms back and forth, though it takes a bit of effort. HOWEVER, I cannot budge the SB. I also currently can't budge the bolts that hold the SB on, but maybe the WD-40 needs more time to work its way in.

What are some thoughts on getting the SB to rotate into position so I can connect to the inner holes? I was thinking of buying a bottle jack, but what size would be appropriate? Or is it more important to loosen the SB brackets and getting some lubrication in there so it can move freely?
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Old 03-15-2019, 07:36 PM   #5528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by property View Post

Since I was getting my 2014 F53 16,000 aligned yesterday I checked on forum to get some history. I saw a lot of people saying they had good results at 1/16, 3/32, 1/8, 1/4 and even higher. See Rodo post dated 06-06-2014, and other post on that thread as a just a few examples of what I found.
Has anyone around here reported abnormal tire wear due to toe? I am starting to think with the mileage most RV's put on tires that age out before wearing out that going with more toe in is probably a good trade off. 1/4" seems excessive but I bet it feels great I wonder how it wears.

Here is mine after more than 5000 miles at 3/32, 30,000 miles total:

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Old 03-15-2019, 09:08 PM   #5529
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MathComp,

The SB can be difficult to move but it will move. It's just held in place with brackets and the rubber bushings. We have a 2013 chassis and when I removed the brackets and bushing they were dry inside.

You have poly bushings because Ford used starting them on the 2012 chassis. It might be wise to lube the bushings once you get them off. It does take a special poly lube.

Try a 3' long 2X4 as a pry bar and they should move.
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:41 PM   #5530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathComp View Post
With some new sockets (but no new power tools yet ) I was able to remove the bolts for both side connector arms for the front SB. I can move the side connector arms back and forth, though it takes a bit of effort. HOWEVER, I cannot budge the SB. I also currently can't budge the bolts that hold the SB on, but maybe the WD-40 needs more time to work its way in.

What are some thoughts on getting the SB to rotate into position so I can connect to the inner holes? I was thinking of buying a bottle jack, but what size would be appropriate? Or is it more important to loosen the SB brackets and getting some lubrication in there so it can move freely?
Hi Ya Fellow Math dude,

I am in the same place in this project. I added the great set of poly bushings one of the folks here made. Sorry i don't remember his ID but those who used them are happy.

I decided to just get a few battery impact tools. I grabbed the Dewalt DCF899 with pin detent rather than the hog ring. I dont mind the socket being a bit more secure. Added a full set of deep well and standard depth 1/2" sockets plus an ICON 250 ft-lb torque wrench from good old Harbor Freight. The torque wrench did great compared to Snap-On. Icon was just $90 on sale vs $100 regular.

Adding a cordless grease gun too. Hands aren't what the used to be so power tools are a nice luxury.

Now that it looks as if rain is gone from California for a while and once the bushings and new front steering stabilizer get here im off adventuring under this beastie.

Oh, i also keep a good supply of PB Blaster to soak anything before attacking it with the impact wrench.

I opted for battery since a compressor with enough ooomphhh to run the wrench + air impact basically cost the same as battery wrench with a couple 5ah batteries. Plus i hate lugging that hose around.

Anyway that was my take on building a good setup to start with....im sure the pros will add more details for us. Love that
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