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Old 04-08-2019, 07:45 AM   #5615
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When the drivers side wheel drops into the pot hole, the distance between the wheel and the frame becomes greater.. The sway bar attempts to duplicate this distance on the passenger side, aggravating the problem.

Yes, a stiffer sway bar will make the ride a little harsher when you encounter the one wheel over a bump scenario, but will reduce the sideways swaying.

Personally, on both F53's I've owned and performed the CHF, I haven't noticed a harsher ride, but the reduction in sway was real obvious..
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Old 04-08-2019, 08:47 AM   #5616
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Well this is getting interesting coming from my point of view. I am not a teacher or have the math skills to totally understand all of this except I know the CHF helped my rig a lot.
Looking at jharrell's pics of the vehicle dropping into a pot hole, I am now somewhat confused. Maybe we can enlighten us laymen somewhat.
So the vehicle on the right has a swaybar, and the whole rig tips into the hole, without the SB it does not, or at least not as much. So I am thinking to myself, isn't that what the SB is for, to keep it from swaying. I look at it and think again, maybe the SB will do that, AFTER the initial drop in the hole, yes or no??
Driving off the street and into say a gas station, the sway or lean isn't immediate and the SB can control the sway quicker, true or false??
Am I starting to get it or am I more confused.
I do know this, the CHF works for me going down the road where I think the CHF is suppose to do it's job in the first place.
Thank you. Interesting read for sure. OH, one other thing. We are all in the same game here and on the team, and whether we have physically met or not, I believe we are all friends. Sometimes words just get in the way. It'll work out.
Thanks to all of you who have helped me and others, and the pics do help to illustrate.
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:03 AM   #5617
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waiter21 View Post
When the drivers side wheel drops into the pot hole, the distance between the wheel and the frame becomes greater.. The sway bar attempts to duplicate this distance on the passenger side, aggravating the problem.

Yes, a stiffer sway bar will make the ride a little harsher when you encounter the one wheel over a bump scenario, but will reduce the sideways swaying.
This is the same thing that occurs with any helper spring, Sumos, Air bags included which is why they help sway. The difference is a normal helper spring will do this on all bumps including ones that go all the way across the road (expansion joints, railroad tracks) where the sway bar will only do this on uneven bumps and do nothing when both wheels hit a bump at the same time.
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:08 AM   #5618
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Originally Posted by edge68474 View Post
Well this is getting interesting coming from my point of view. I am not a teacher or have the math skills to totally understand all of this except I know the CHF helped my rig a lot.
Looking at jharrell's pics of the vehicle dropping into a pot hole, I am now somewhat confused. Maybe we can enlighten us laymen somewhat.
So the vehicle on the right has a swaybar, and the whole rig tips into the hole, without the SB it does not, or at least not as much. So I am thinking to myself, isn't that what the SB is for, to keep it from swaying. I look at it and think again, maybe the SB will do that, AFTER the initial drop in the hole, yes or no??
Driving off the street and into say a gas station, the sway or lean isn't immediate and the SB can control the sway quicker, true or false??
Am I starting to get it or am I more confused.
I do know this, the CHF works for me going down the road where I think the CHF is suppose to do it's job in the first place.
Thank you. Interesting read for sure. OH, one other thing. We are all in the same game here and on the team, and whether we have physically met or not, I believe we are all friends. Sometimes words just get in the way. It'll work out.
Thanks to all of you who have helped me and others, and the pics do help to illustrate.
Looking at the picture, I think it trys to show the car leaning, not swaying.

The center of gravity will cause that, without an anti sway bar.

Another way to look at it, is try to rock your car side to side with and without the anti sway bar.

Without it, it will rock easier and more.

To much anti sway bar and it will be so stiff that rocking it will cause the wheels to lift off the ground.
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:15 AM   #5619
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edge68474 View Post
So the vehicle on the right has a swaybar, and the whole rig tips into the hole, without the SB it does not, or at least not as much. So I am thinking to myself, isn't that what the SB is for, to keep it from swaying. I look at it and think again, maybe the SB will do that, AFTER the initial drop in the hole, yes or no??
Driving off the street and into say a gas station, the sway or lean isn't immediate and the SB can control the sway quicker, true or false??
The sway bar attempts to keep the axle level with the frame, if you go over a pot hole it will exert more force to push the vehicle over to level it with the axle more quickly which you will feel a bump, just as though you had stiffer leaf springs.

With no sway bar only your main springs try to level the vehicle with the axle so with no sway bar helping you have less spring rate allowing the axle to articulate down into the pothole without the vehicle following as quickly, so you feel a smaller bump.

You can see an extreme examples of this with offroad vehicles, Jeep will have disconnecting sway bars so that you can go over pot holes like these in more comfort (well it has alot to do with keeping the tires in contact for more traction, but its more comfortable too):

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If you drive off camber into a gas station the sway bar resist the axle articulation, you will feel a bigger initial hit than without one, but you will rock back and forth less after the fact as the stiffer spring rate resists the continued side to side motion.

This was a concern of mine early on that the increased spring rate of the CHF would cause more frame twist due to sway bar pushing harder to resist movement going into a gas station and perhaps cause issue with my windshield but has proven not to be an issue, this is what happens if you have too much sway control and a long frame without upper structure support to resist twist(which most MH have little of except Prevost), he is going off the side of the road at an angle:

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Old 04-08-2019, 08:59 PM   #5620
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Maybe someone can enlighten me here about CHF (just learned about it!). I have a 1998 Georgie Boy Swinger built on the Chevy P30 chassis (I believe just prior to Workhorse taking it over) and was wondering if it applies to it? Thanks all!
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Old 04-08-2019, 09:54 PM   #5621
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rjreiffer View Post
Maybe someone can enlighten me here about CHF (just learned about it!). I have a 1998 Georgie Boy Swinger built on the Chevy P30 chassis (I believe just prior to Workhorse taking it over) and was wondering if it applies to it? Thanks all!
Sorry to disappoint you, but the CHF only applies to Ford F53 chassis.
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Old 04-08-2019, 10:22 PM   #5622
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Sorry to disappoint you, but the CHF only applies to Ford F53 chassis.
Well I appreciate the information! Thanks for enlightening me on this! Maybe we should call it the FCHF! Ford Cheap Hsndling Fix
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Old 04-09-2019, 06:08 AM   #5623
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Well I appreciate the information! Thanks for enlightening me on this! Maybe we should call it the FCHF! Ford Cheap Hsndling Fix
Well this is the Ford Chassis forum... Looks like the P30 doesn't use links, instead the bar bushing are attached to frame and levers just go into a bushing on the A-arms in the IFS so there is no adjustability other than replacing bar. There are aftermarket sway bars for the P30, just not cheap:

https://www.ultrarvproducts.com/Anti...Kit?filter=276
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Old 04-09-2019, 04:47 PM   #5624
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Chf update

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Originally Posted by jbwilli1 View Post
Close up.


I think when it quit raining, I'll get back under there & give it a try.



What scares me is getting the bolt & hole lined up. The angle of my bar is so steep I can't get a good bite to put a jack under, without it slipping off.



I finally added a brick under one side of the bottle jack so it would match the angle.


Now that I look at again, I wouldn't need to remove the Z bracket, the bolt should spin inside the bushing.


QUESTION should the rear tires be off the ground or in normal contact?





Did the rear yesterday, took about 4-5 hours for both sides, but worth every minute of it!


Took it out for a road test today & I'm a VERY HAPPY camper.


We had 20-25 mph winds with stronger gusts, wind from the right barely noticeable, on the way back, wind from the left seemed like a nudge compared to before.


18 wheelers no more suck & shove, most that passed hardly affected my coach. Only one really did & he was probably hitting 80 mph.


Thanx to all for the help, advice & encouragement!
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Old 04-09-2019, 09:21 PM   #5625
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He is still here and reads the threads sometimes, maybe he will chime in if he feels like it, but I think he feels its a lost cause.

Not sure why I persist at this point, I just want people to have correct facts and not base their decision on superstition and pseudo-science. The more than 100 years of automotive engineering and much more of physics is out there for anyone to read for themselves, just trying to direct those to it in summary form.
John McKinley here, and you're right, I still follow this thread.

Nine years ago, I discovered that moving the anti sway bar links to the rear holes greatly improved the F53 driving experience. I thought this good news should be shared with other owners so I posted it on this forum. There were lots of people who were happy with this simple, free modification from the very beginning.

But, I was surprised at the naysayers who without evidence, without trying the CHF and without the engineering expertise to analyze it, flatly proclaimed it wouldn't work and that no one should try it.

I grew weary of listening to their whining and sat in the background for a long time, letting Dunner and then TeJay carry the torch. I was content my idea had helped hundreds of F53 owners and was not willing to waste my time discussing why something that clearly works can't possibly work.

But now, I think it's important to make two important points that are all anyone needs to know about the CHF:
1) Move your anti sway bar links to the rear holes and this pig of a vehicle will be more pleasant to drive. Even your DW will notice the difference from the passenger chair.
2) This modification will cost nothing and will not break anything. And it can be undone if you don't like it.

I'm breaking into the thread now not because I'm interested in all this "learned" discussion but because my fear is that potential CHFers are being scared off by all the chatter.

I was glad to see that one of the most recent posts was from someone who just tried it and was thrilled with the result. I encourage new readers to read points 1 and 2 above and not be dissuaded by thoughts of levers, link angles, forces, torques, etc. Just do the CHF and enjoy it!
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Old 04-09-2019, 09:56 PM   #5626
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Well you can add me to the list of very satisfied with the results I derived from such a simple and inexpensive adjustment.
For me it was a very noticeable difference from the time I pulled out of my driveway. I did continue to work at improving the ride and drivability of my coach by adding SUMO Springs front and rear (not so cheap) but again reaped considerable benefits from this add on. I also adder a Roadmaster Steering stabilizer which made a positive but not as drastic difference as the two fore mentioned changes, but added to my peace of mind from a safety standpoint in case of a blowout or front wheel leaving pavement situation.
I am at a point now where I am satisfied with both ride and handling of my F53 Coach and probably won't need to make any additional changes .
Oh yeah, New tires and an alignment also made a big overall difference.

From a Cost standpoint, the CHF was the best thing I did to my coach.

Don't knock it til you try it!!!
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Old 04-10-2019, 12:15 AM   #5627
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Cheap handling fix

I also thankyou. Bought my first class A a year ago. Itasca sunstar 27N. Went on a 2000 mile trip and hated every mile. Heard about CHF and did both front and back. Took me about an hiur to do both. My wife now drives with one hand and we love it. Donít notice any issue with increased harshness and have had no issues. I get lost in all the ďengineeringĒ stuff. All I know is nothing spent and itís a whole new vehicle. BIG THANKS again for sharing your discovery 9 years ago.
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:17 AM   #5628
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Thanks John,

I agree with your two points and comments. Very clear, concise and straight to the point. Perform the CHF and enjoy the ride!!

We just returned from a 400 mile trip. There's very little push from any semi's when they pass us on expressways and never any movements on 2-lane frontal encounters. Still without a doubt the very best driving and handling MOD.

We are heading to ME this Summer to the same CG near Bar Harbor. The DW will attend her 50th Nursing class reunion.

Would enjoy visiting you and your DW again but our current plans are to drive to MI to pick up my Sister and head into Canada, up the QEW then down through the Moosehead lake region into ME. That's a beautiful drive we've often taken.

Hope you are both well and still putting miles on those bikes.
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