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Old 04-10-2019, 05:58 AM   #5629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmckinley View Post
John McKinley here, and you're right, I still follow this thread.

Nine years ago, I discovered that moving the anti sway bar links to the rear holes greatly improved the F53 driving experience. I thought this good news should be shared with other owners so I posted it on this forum. There were lots of people who were happy with this simple, free modification from the very beginning.

But, I was surprised at the naysayers who without evidence, without trying the CHF and without the engineering expertise to analyze it, flatly proclaimed it wouldn't work and that no one should try it.

I grew weary of listening to their whining and sat in the background for a long time, letting Dunner and then TeJay carry the torch. I was content my idea had helped hundreds of F53 owners and was not willing to waste my time discussing why something that clearly works can't possibly work.

But now, I think it's important to make two important points that are all anyone needs to know about the CHF:
1) Move your anti sway bar links to the rear holes and this pig of a vehicle will be more pleasant to drive. Even your DW will notice the difference from the passenger chair.
2) This modification will cost nothing and will not break anything. And it can be undone if you don't like it.

I'm breaking into the thread now not because I'm interested in all this "learned" discussion but because my fear is that potential CHFers are being scared off by all the chatter.

I was glad to see that one of the most recent posts was from someone who just tried it and was thrilled with the result. I encourage new readers to read points 1 and 2 above and not be dissuaded by thoughts of levers, link angles, forces, torques, etc. Just do the CHF and enjoy it!
The bolded statement above made me chuckle. My wife enjoyed driving our E450-based C class, but she hated this one. Nonetheless, she uses it alone from time to time when I'm off two-wheeling, so she wanted to get accustomed to it.

I sneaked the CHF in and didn't tell her. We took it the next weekend up to Eureka Springs, Arkansas, on some twisty roads and I asked her to drive. On the freeway she said it felt better and she must be getting used to it, but once we got off the Interstate and on crooked roads she looked at me, smiled real big, and said "What did you do?"

I thank you, sir, and ask you not to be disheartened. Some people are just naysayers and can't help it.
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Old 04-10-2019, 06:26 AM   #5630
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmckinley View Post
I was glad to see that one of the most recent posts was from someone who just tried it and was thrilled with the result. I encourage new readers to read points 1 and 2 above and not be dissuaded by thoughts of levers, link angles, forces, torques, etc. Just do the CHF and enjoy it!
Glad to see you posting and keeping things in perspective. No better testament to the standard CHF working without issue for nearly a decade with no further expense or modification or worry about angles. Doesn't get any cheaper or easier.

I agree this is the first thing everyone should do and if not satisfied then start brushing up on your trig .
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:26 AM   #5631
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Thanks everyone for the kind words.

I guess I was just cranky yesterday after someone on another thread opined that something I suggested wouldn’t/couldn’t work. I knew better because it had worked for me for six years with no problems. That brought on flashbacks from the early days of the CHF.
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Old 04-10-2019, 09:39 AM   #5632
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Originally Posted by jmckinley View Post
Thanks everyone for the kind words.

I guess I was just cranky yesterday after someone on another thread opined that something I suggested wouldn’t/couldn’t work. I knew better because it had worked for me for six years with no problems. That brought on flashbacks from the early days of the CHF.
On behalf of myself and the many, many fellow F-53 owners you have helped, THANK YOU!!

BTW, I only did the rear at first and noted a considerable improvement even DW noticed it. Since I received and installed the TeJay plates for the front, we have noted even more improvement. I like to judge a tree by the fruit it bears and your “tree” bears much good fruit. I really don’t care about all the rest, it just works and causes no harm. Thanks again.
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Old 04-10-2019, 05:31 PM   #5633
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Originally Posted by jmckinley View Post
That brought on flashbacks from the early days of the CHF.
Oh I don't think that's changed all that much over the years. Go back just a couple pages to post #5600 and you can read why the CHF doesn't even matter and can't really work.

On the other hand, it worked wonders for us and was basically free (I had to go buy the right size wrenches and sockets). I'm glad I didn't throw money at parts and upgrades before I tried this simple fix. Best upgrade I've done by far.
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Old 04-10-2019, 07:28 PM   #5634
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Another happy F-53 driver who appreciates the shared learning experience from a fellow RVer!

I used the Hellwig adjustable end links on the front, and the front links on the rear. Even the wife noticed - but I must also point out that our rear sway bar bushings were MIA when I first looked under there.
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Old 04-11-2019, 09:05 PM   #5635
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I have thought about doing the CHF on my chassis. Tonight I went all the way back to posting #1 on this thread, way back in 2010. I read the first 70 posts and then skimmed through more pages of posts. I have reached the conclusion that I am going to do the CHF on my 26000 GVWR F53 chassis. Thanks to all who have contributed to this ongoing thread, both yay and nay. I'm convinced that the CHF is not going to cause any damage, and if it helps the away problem any at all I'll be a happy RVer.
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Old 04-12-2019, 05:22 AM   #5636
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Ken,

I like your username. It fits well!!

If you are disappointed in the results you will join a group of maybe 2 or 3 for what ever reason didn't find the CHF beneficial enough to keep it anr/or decided to spend $1,000 for larger & stiffer front & rear anti-sway bars (SB). If anything breaks there's also an equally small group to join. In fact you may be the first in the group.

Yes there have been a few loose bolts and noises reported as a result but most all were due to technician error in one form or another.

If you do this yourself do make sure you check the rear SB (Stabilizer Bar) bracket bolts which hold it to the rear axle. If they are at all loose or easy to turn they will be less than 66 ft lbs. Remove the bolts and apply blue lock tight then re-torque. If you have someone else do the CHF ask them to check those rear SB bracket bolts. It will save you time down the road.

We still don't know why but the brackets are/can or will come loose and many owners have discovered bent, broken or missing brackets as well as missing SB bushings.

Read the STICKY right below the CHF STICKY thread. They are coming loose on units as old as 1999 and 2000 as well as newer units like 2016, 2017 and I believe a few 2018. Ford will replace them if under warranty but most are not and that's probably why nothing is being done by Ford to correct the issue. It's only on the rear also.

Please report back to us how things turn out. Thanks & enjoy the ride!!
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Old 04-12-2019, 08:01 PM   #5637
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I am so glad I came across this post last year. I went right out the next day and changed both the front and back of my Coachmen Mirada 35KB. It didn't drive too bad but it was a just a little wiggly in certain situations. Once the changes were made I couldn't hardly believe the difference. Mine is a 2016 and I now have about 25,000 miles on it. I have heard a couple of popping noises when backing in making a sharp turn, but haven't seen anything out of place or anything like that. I have rotated my tires one time but I have never had it lined up. Tire wear looks great all the way around on the Goodyears that came on it. Thanks for this information that made my good ride an even better ride.
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Old 04-13-2019, 08:52 AM   #5638
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TeJay View Post
Ken,

I like your username. It fits well!!

If you are disappointed in the results you will join a group of maybe 2 or 3 for what ever reason didn't find the CHF beneficial enough to keep it anr/or decided to spend $1,000 for larger & stiffer front & rear anti-sway bars (SB). If anything breaks there's also an equally small group to join. In fact you may be the first in the group.

Yes there have been a few loose bolts and noises reported as a result but most all were due to technician error in one form or another.

If you do this yourself do make sure you check the rear SB (Stabilizer Bar) bracket bolts which hold it to the rear axle. If they are at all loose or easy to turn they will be less than 66 ft lbs. Remove the bolts and apply blue lock tight then re-torque. If you have someone else do the CHF ask them to check those rear SB bracket bolts. It will save you time down the road.

We still don't know why but the brackets are/can or will come loose and many owners have discovered bent, broken or missing brackets as well as missing SB bushings.

Read the STICKY right below the CHF STICKY thread. They are coming loose on units as old as 1999 and 2000 as well as newer units like 2016, 2017 and I believe a few 2018. Ford will replace them if under warranty but most are not and that's probably why nothing is being done by Ford to correct the issue. It's only on the rear also.

Please report back to us how things turn out. Thanks & enjoy the ride!!
Thanks TeJay. I will report back with my experiences. I'll be doing the CHF next week. I would normally do it myself but I'm taking my coach in for some alignment, balancing and tire truing. I'll be going to Josam's in Orlando. They have an excellent reputation and have been recommended by several RV dealers. When I asked the alignment tech if he had heard of the CHF, he said he does and that he would do it while my coach is on the life. I saw the difference in handling their work did on a friend's Tiffin when I rode to Orlando with him to have Josam's align and check out other issues. I'll judge differences between going to and coming home from Josam's, which is about 90 miles, mostly on I-4 and I-75. My next test will be a 800 mile round trip planned for next month. I may be contacting you for information on your CHF plates.
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Old 04-13-2019, 04:20 PM   #5639
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Ken,

I'd ask the alignment tech to set the caster to the most positive that they will. I believe the specs are around 5.5 (#) degrees. If they will set it to 6# that's even better. Positive caster will force the wheels to go straight down the road. That's what allows you to ride a bicycle with no hands. Your weight forces the wheel straight.

The toe should be toed in 1/16" or 1/32" per side. Just ask the tech where he recommends it be set.

Toe is one of those alignment angles that is never going to be perfect. In a perfect world the tires should both be pointing perfectly straight down the road all the time. They are usually set in slightly because over time the tie rods wear and the weight forces the wheels to gradually point straight then out. The more they point out the more the inside of the tire wears. It's never perfect but that's how it's been done for ever. It's set for a compromise.
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Old 04-13-2019, 05:38 PM   #5640
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Originally Posted by TeJay View Post
Toe is one of those alignment angles that is never going to be perfect. In a perfect world the tires should both be pointing perfectly straight down the road all the time. They are usually set in slightly because over time the tie rods wear and the weight forces the wheels to gradually point straight then out. The more they point out the more the inside of the tire wears. It's never perfect but that's how it's been done for ever. It's set for a compromise.
Toe in is not just about making up the slop in the tie rod, positive toe while increasing tire wire and slightly less efficient causes a centering force as the tires are trying to turn toward each other constantly. If you align it such that at speed its zero toe due to slop the steering will feel more loose, while the more toe you add it becomes tighter and your tires wear more.

A small amount of toe in beyond zero is desirable for straight line handling, just like positive caster and a steering stabilizer, toe is the easiest to do yourself for free, its the other CHF.

Going from slightly toed out to 3/32 toe in on my motor home was as big a change as the CHF, 1/8 toe was even better but I backed off because its above spec and was worried about tire wear, I might go back my tires show no signs of wear at 3/32. It felt like adding a steering stabilizer.
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Old 04-14-2019, 08:27 PM   #5641
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Did the rear yesterday, took about 4-5 hours for both sides, but worth every minute of it!


Took it out for a road test today & I'm a VERY HAPPY camper.


We had 20-25 mph winds with stronger gusts, wind from the right barely noticeable, on the way back, wind from the left seemed like a nudge compared to before.


18 wheelers no more suck & shove, most that passed hardly affected my coach. Only one really did & he was probably hitting 80 mph.


Thanx to all for the help, advice & encouragement!



How did you turn the bracket around? I have a Ford 2018 model year on a 22k chassis (2019 Thor). I tried to do it yesterday. I did the front, but after putting Sumo Springs and Koni FSD on the front, I didn't have much time to do the CHF on the rear. I got the nuts off - and one bold came off easily. The one attached to the link won't turn and won't come out. I had to stop due to time and it has been raining all day today. I was looking for why it seems others didn't have an issue, but after reading your post, it looks like Ford changed this bracket for the 2018. It is smooth on the outside which means that when you tighten the nut, it can't turn. If it could, it would need to be able to put a wrench on that side as well. But since it is smooth, it appears to be "pressed" or worse into the upper link arm. Appreciate any help you can provide. Thank you.
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Old 04-15-2019, 05:24 AM   #5642
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Hurricane34J,

I have not yet seen the setup you describe. Maybe soon we will encounter some newer unist in our Arkansas WBGO RV club and I'll see what you have experienced. Once I do the CHF on a new unit I'll have a better idea how to deal with it.

According to everything I have read Ford added some serrations to the bolt shank just under the bolt head. When the nut is tightened down the serrations scores the bracket creating matching serrations which holds the bolt in place.

I have no idea why Ford thought they had to add the serrations. I've been around mechanical things for most of my life and have seldom seen this technique. When I have it was on cheap kids toys and other small mechanical devices. The serrations were used to hold a bolt in place so the bolt would be less likely to spin when torque was applied. I've also seen a lot fail to work well.

You may need to employ a large hammer or pry bar to force the bolt and bracket out of the stabilizer bar (SB).

WyCamper, you are correct about some naysayers (post #5600) but notice since there's plenty of positive comments they became strangely silent. It's very difficult to argue with such success!!!!
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